Cuando llueva :-)
Which language is difficult to learn?
Yes, I would have used the subjunctive in all of those, almost automatically. (I didn't know what "encuanto" meant... turns out it should be "en cuanto" and it means "as soon as", which I would automatically assume takes the subjunctive if the event is in the future.) Nothing hard about any of them once you understand the basic rules. There *are* some cases where I'm sometimes unsure why the subjunctive is used, but they're becoming infrequent.
- Kef
- Kef
I hate to admit, but, even being more aware of the realities of difficulty and features of many languages, I must say Chinese is, unfortunately, one of the most complex ones that has turned so people off. (though other factors might be more important...)
namely, there are three formidable parts
1) pronunciation (tones)
2) characters
3) syntax
I shall I say I still make a few mistakes in tones, a few more in characters, and quite a few in syntax every single day!
... but no, there is just relative difficulty, no absolute. There must be some easy parts that can relieve your "pain" of dealing with difficult parts. For example, Chinese has no verb conjugations, no irregular spelling (and no spelling), no case endings, no irregular plural forms, ... and no peculiar, "unreasonable" preposition collations, a great deal of which I have seen in English.
namely, there are three formidable parts
1) pronunciation (tones)
2) characters
3) syntax
I shall I say I still make a few mistakes in tones, a few more in characters, and quite a few in syntax every single day!
... but no, there is just relative difficulty, no absolute. There must be some easy parts that can relieve your "pain" of dealing with difficult parts. For example, Chinese has no verb conjugations, no irregular spelling (and no spelling), no case endings, no irregular plural forms, ... and no peculiar, "unreasonable" preposition collations, a great deal of which I have seen in English.
Verb conjugations in English? The easiest among European languages after Swedish, Norwegian and Danish verbs!
Those are easy for me, too, otherwise I wouldn't be posting here. But conjugations are hard for native speakers of languages without conjugations at all.
The main thing about English is that it has many irregular weak verbs, with irregularity beyond the weak verb classes of the continental North Germanic languages (where such is limited to remembering that a weak verb is a -te verb, a -de verb, or an -ede/-ade verb in most cases) and the typical Germanic Rückumlaut.
Note that I was speaking of the continental North Germanic *standard* languages, as many dialects may have more complex verb conjugation schemes.
Anyway, those are complexities that native speakers don't have problems with, but something that every foreign learner have troubles with.
But is it fair at all, for me, to say that those are difficult, just because my native language doesn't have conjugations (or umlaut, whatever that doesn't exist in that language)? So-called difficulties would then be entirely and universally relative.
Whereas the Chinese, like any other SL learners, would find conjugations and irregular things (verbs, plural forms, etc) "difficult", SL learners would, likewise, find it weird that Chinese has no conjugations and no distinctive plural forms at all. Whenever they want to say something involving verbs, they must remind themselves that "ah, verbs do not change for any pronouns and at any time whatsoever" all the time. Isn't that true?
But is it fair at all, for me, to say that those are difficult, just because my native language doesn't have conjugations (or umlaut, whatever that doesn't exist in that language)? So-called difficulties would then be entirely and universally relative.
Whereas the Chinese, like any other SL learners, would find conjugations and irregular things (verbs, plural forms, etc) "difficult", SL learners would, likewise, find it weird that Chinese has no conjugations and no distinctive plural forms at all. Whenever they want to say something involving verbs, they must remind themselves that "ah, verbs do not change for any pronouns and at any time whatsoever" all the time. Isn't that true?
En réponse à quelle langue est difficile à apprendre... je dirais qu'une langue écrite avec une écriture très différente de l'alphabet romain (enfin celui qu'on utilise en espagnol, anglais...) ajoute comme difficulté l'apprentissage d'une nouveau mode d'écriture.
Je m'explique : Apprendre le une langue de Chine se révèle tâche pénible de mon point de vue si on a l'intention de le faire seul derrière l'écran de son ordinateur.
En revanche, apprendre le latin, ou encore l'anglais si on est hispanophone ou francophone se fait beaucoup plus facilement avec l'Internet comme outil d'apprentissage.
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To answer what language I personnaly would consider hard to lears, I would say one that is not written with roman writing system. (Not sure I use the appropriate term. I refer to our alphabet, correct me if I was wrong.)
My point is you add to normal learning difficulties the challenge to use and learn another writing system. Moreover, that reduces the tools you could access to from your personal computer. (I personnaly have a hard time finding a way to display syllabic writing on my screen, forget about writing it with my keyboard for now, see the picture? :P)
On the other hand, learning a language which uses the same writing system as ours helps alot, on my point of view, especially considering how relatively simple it is. (Just compare it to ancient Chineese for fun :P)
(And please respect my choice to express myself in two languages in the languages section, thank you for reading.)
Je m'explique : Apprendre le une langue de Chine se révèle tâche pénible de mon point de vue si on a l'intention de le faire seul derrière l'écran de son ordinateur.
En revanche, apprendre le latin, ou encore l'anglais si on est hispanophone ou francophone se fait beaucoup plus facilement avec l'Internet comme outil d'apprentissage.
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To answer what language I personnaly would consider hard to lears, I would say one that is not written with roman writing system. (Not sure I use the appropriate term. I refer to our alphabet, correct me if I was wrong.)
My point is you add to normal learning difficulties the challenge to use and learn another writing system. Moreover, that reduces the tools you could access to from your personal computer. (I personnaly have a hard time finding a way to display syllabic writing on my screen, forget about writing it with my keyboard for now, see the picture? :P)
On the other hand, learning a language which uses the same writing system as ours helps alot, on my point of view, especially considering how relatively simple it is. (Just compare it to ancient Chineese for fun :P)
(And please respect my choice to express myself in two languages in the languages section, thank you for reading.)
Bruno, I can see your point. Even though many of the Chinese are proud of their writing system which, as they call it, the most difficult (or ridiculous) writing system in the world (or even impossible to learn), they do find ABC to be peculiar in some ways... after all, they are brought up in a culture where ABC is not the "native script" (again, this is a term that not all of us would agree on :))...
Generally, difficulties lie in
1) writing system (characters)
2) pronunciation (consonantal clusters, retroflex consonants, tones, etc)
3) case (where exceptions are commonplace)
4) genders (being arbitrary)
5) tenses and conjugations
and the sixth, the global problem, would be about vocabulary, where more cognates would make a target language easier.
Generally, difficulties lie in
1) writing system (characters)
2) pronunciation (consonantal clusters, retroflex consonants, tones, etc)
3) case (where exceptions are commonplace)
4) genders (being arbitrary)
5) tenses and conjugations
and the sixth, the global problem, would be about vocabulary, where more cognates would make a target language easier.
What's about idioms, which must be learnt additionally to the vocabulary, complex syntactic structures different from your mother tounge, government of prepositions, postpositons and verbs, i. e. the right noun case in association with prepositons, postpositons and verbs? Maybe different government belongs to different meanings!
Right. Vocabulary is the only, life-long "trouble" (or task). Grammar is only the first step to start with, very often when you are equipping yourself with thousands of basic words. The so-called difficulties are only short-term problems
Nobody talks about articles. Some languages don't have any, such as slavonic languages (except Bulgarian), Turkish, Chinese and so on; on the other hand, other languages like French and Italian has three different types of articles: definite, indeterminate and partitive articles.
I think difficulty is proportional to irregularity. Generally, what people consider to be the hardest aspects are the most irregular. English spelling, Spanish verbs, and even Chinese script can fall into this category.
Un ejemplo del subjuntivo español es la frase llueva, truene o relampeguee. Por ejemplo, "¿Vas a ir al concierto?" "Claro, llueva, truene o relampaguee" This expression is similar ton English's rain or shine but more poetic and not very common in slang, although I think it's beautiful.
Un ejemplo del subjuntivo español es la frase llueva, truene o relampeguee. Por ejemplo, "¿Vas a ir al concierto?" "Claro, llueva, truene o relampaguee" This expression is similar ton English's rain or shine but more poetic and not very common in slang, although I think it's beautiful.
But even Esperanto, for me, is riddled with a lot of irregularities. Every single small words, the affixes, and the verb conjugation endings, are all regular, but what they add up are no less easier than natural languages where you are to remember every word (along with conjugated/declined forms) by heart... naturally or not.
For me, only a few factors make a language more difficult than some others. First, cognates and int'l words. Second, learning materials. Third, chances of using the language, through speaking to native speakers and exposure to mass media.
For me, only a few factors make a language more difficult than some others. First, cognates and int'l words. Second, learning materials. Third, chances of using the language, through speaking to native speakers and exposure to mass media.