Meaning of "Castilian"

furrykef   Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:52 pm GMT
I have to admit I hate the word "Castilian", in reference to the dialect, and the phrase "Castilian Spanish", and I wish people would stop using these terms. It's most commonly used to mean the Spanish of Spain, but this is different from what "castellano" means in Spanish. People in South America often refer to their own language as "castellano", for instance. Now, sometimes it's OK for languages to have different meanings for words like these. For instance, in some countries, the word "America" is defined as North and South America, not the United States... and that's fine, because that's their own language and they can have "America" mean whatever they like. But the only people who are likely to know what "Castilian" even means are those who already know or study Spanish, so in this case I don't think it makes sense to have "Castilian" defined differently from "castellano".

So I think if you want to speak of the Spanish of Spain, just say "European Spanish". As a bonus, the term is much more readily understood by somebody who might not know the word "Castilian", let alone what you mean by it.

Thoughts?

- Kef
Guest   Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:03 pm GMT
Why would we stop using it? You are he one who would start uderstanding its meaning. "Spanish of Spain" is an ambiguous term because there are two main Spanish dialects in Spain: the northern one (Castilian Spanish) and the southern one(andalusian Spanish) . There are also transitional dialects between tem: Manchegan, Murcian , Extremaduran, and Madrilean (only to some extent because it is more similar to the northern variety). Hence the term Castilian Spanish is perfectly introduced to avoid ambiguity. And yes, Castellano is a Spanish term which denotes the Spanish language (Castillian Spanish to be more precise) but where are talking about widely used terms in the English language, not Spanish.
Guest   Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:45 pm GMT
Mexican Spanish
Spaniard Spanish
Argentine Spanish
etc.
Guest   Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:50 pm GMT
<<Why would we stop using it? You are he one who would start uderstanding its meaning. "Spanish of Spain" is an ambiguous term because there are two main Spanish dialects in Spain: the northern one (Castilian Spanish) and the southern one(andalusian Spanish) . There are also transitional dialects between tem: Manchegan, Murcian , Extremaduran, and Madrilean (only to some extent because it is more similar to the northern variety). Hence the term Castilian Spanish is perfectly introduced to avoid ambiguity. And yes, Castellano is a Spanish term which denotes the Spanish language (Castillian Spanish to be more precise) but where are talking about widely used terms in the English language, not Spanish.>>

And you think Spain is the only country in the world that has regional dialects? then we shouldn't say British English because there are different dialects within the UK, or we shouldn't say Mexican Spanish because I know for a fact that Mexico has a lot of regional accents as well.
Guest   Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:56 pm GMT
In spain there are very different dialects compared to argentina or mexico where there are less differences. So spanish spanish means nothing
Guest   Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:03 pm GMT
Spanish Spanish sounds awkward, but Spaniard Spanish does not.
Guest   Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:08 pm GMT
Castilian Spanish neither, and it is the most common term. It is also the most accurate term because Andalusian Spanish is very usual in Spain and it is Spaniard Spanish too.
Guest   Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:03 pm GMT
then I should start saying, Californian English and Newyorker English, etc. because it is more presize than saying American English right?
Guest   Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:54 pm GMT
There are not much more dialects than Castilian Spanish and Andalusian Spanish in Spain, all the varieties fall in one of these main dialects or they are transitional, they are the two big dialects in Spain, so why not give two names to each one? I don' care other languages or other countries.
Guest   Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:19 am GMT
People don't care about all the dialects of Spain either, if you are from Spain you speak Spaniard Spanish that's it, just as a person from Canada speaks Canadian English, we're not gonna start saying, "oh he speaks Ontarian English" or something like that.
Guest   Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:46 am GMT
Castilian Spanish is a common English term itself, I've not invented it, Spaniard Spanish does not exist. I tried to explain the logic behind it from my point of view, if it does not like you, ok, but I think that we all will have to stick with the term "castilian Spanish" because it is the most commonly used, wether some of you like it or not.
Guest   Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:52 am GMT
By the way, in Canada or US there is not a geographical zone so closely related to Standard Canadian English or Standard American English as Castile is related to "Standard Spaniard Spanish" (= Castilian Spanish) , hence you have one more reason to call it Castilian Spanish.
K. T.   Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:33 am GMT
It doesn't bother me. If native speakers of Spanish want to protest this, let them, but it really isn't our business to tell natives what to call their own language. Actually, I find this almost the stuff of an SNL skit.

It also isn't the business of people who are not US citizens to comment on our usage of "American". Miss Manners, go weep, someone had to tell them. I'm tired of being so polite.
Guest   Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:14 am GMT
They are not native speakers who are protesting, I'm a native speaker and I find it ok to say "Castilian Spanish".
todosmentira   Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:03 pm GMT
It's very clear:

Castilian is the translation of Castellano.
Castellano is the language/dialect of Castilla la Mancha.

What's the problem?
It's not Argentine Spanish, Mexican Spanish, Cuban Spanish, Andaluz Spanish etc
It's not Asturo-lleones, it's not Gallego, it's not Aragones, Catalan/Valenciano or Andaluz.