The British...incompetence with languages?

K. T.   Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:13 am GMT
"know that Spanish has a very high profile in America, but do native English speakers there go out of their way to learn Spanish? I rather doubt that, too. Correct me if I'm wrong. " -Damian in Edinburgh

I'm actually seeing more people showing an interest in learning Spanish. I'm seeing it in people in their late thirties and up. A senior citizen told me that she thought perhaps she should buy a book at the "dollar" store in Spanish, so she could learn.

I do know of a free Spanish class in my community (twice a week), but there are only three or four students in the class. It will be interesting to see if the class increases in size as word gets out. Of course, the most interesting thing will be if the students STICK with the class.
K. T.   Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:16 am GMT
Group classes will work for some people, but foreign languages require individual effort as well, so I don't blame high school teachers. After all, they are really only introducing the language and the grammar. Unless one has a teacher with a native or near-native accent, really speaking well is not an option.
Damian in Edinburgh   Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:26 am GMT
Latest report sheds further light on this issue - why Britons are less competent in learning other Languages than are most other Europeans. It's not a question of competence as such - much more one of far less desire or impetus to do so. So the answer still remains this one - "Why bother in the first place - everybody elsewhere speaks and/or understands English anyway!"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/05/ngcse105.xml

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/05/view05a.xml
John   Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:25 pm GMT
Let's not ignore the elephant standing in the room. Most non-native English speakers do not learn English simply out of interest but out of sheer necessity. Strong English skills are becoming increasingly important in the global job market and are often a requirement for just about any decent job. Foreign languages are simply not the priority in English speaking countries as English is in non-English speaking countries.

I happen to speak German fluently, but it does not help me when I speak to customers who are in non-German speaking countries. In those cases I pretty need to rely on them being able to speak English. When a Hungarian speaks to someone from Spain or the Netherlands or just about anywhere else, they will usually speak English. It seems English has become such an important skill today that is is displacing studying other languages. How many Germans students today would be willing to forgo learning English so that they could learn Norwegan instead? I am willing to bet that it would be very few.

There is simply A LOT more utility in learning English as a foreign language to non-native English speakers than there is in learning foreign languages to us native English speakers.

It's not that we cannot learn foreign languages or are in some way intrinsically tongue-tied due to our language being whatever is may be. It is just that we simply have more important things to do with our time. Learning non-English foreign (hobby) languages is neither to us nor anyone else a major priority.
Damian in Edinburgh   Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:39 pm GMT
If you bother to read through all the comments posted today (05/11/07) on the relative link on the above website you may well be amazed by more than just a few grammatical / spelling mistakes made by the posters, the vast majority of whom, naturally, are from the UK itself. You may also think that the posters need to master the skills of writing their own Language before even considering taking on any foreign Language.

To be fair, though, I know for sure how easy it is to commit typos when in a rush and with no time to proof read before pressing the send button - or forget to do so, or simply don't take the trouble to read the script through first.

One correspondent used lower case for the first person pronoun - absolutely no excuse for that - just pure idleness! :-) i go bonkers when I see that.

For instance, I think that postings by Americans, on the whole, are of a much higher standard than those by Brits when it comes to grammar, spelling (ignoring accepted spelling variations) and correct sentence construction. They obviously do their proof reading before clicking, or are just generally better writers of the English Language. Just an observation made........
Damian in Edinburgh   Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:46 pm GMT
Sorry, but it's me again!

I think the Comments section of the following link (from the leader column of the same UK newspaper today 05/00/07) makes for some interesting reading on the issue of the decline in Foreigh Language learning in this country. btw - note a fair number of the same old errors I mentioned above! :-)


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/11/05/dl0502.xml
Damian in Edinburgh   Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:50 pm GMT
I got the date wrong! Never mind - I'm as guilty as the next guy.....
English   Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:32 am GMT
Damian nice of you to separate the English from the rest of the UK, I'm English and whilst I'm not fluent, know enough to get by in French and Japanese.

Don't forget though most of our media, is also in English, whilst in mosy truly multilingual countries, there maybe various other languages alongside the dominant one, therefore much more exposure.

Besides many British people today may be of other descent and have their parents tongue, as well as the language of their birth.
Damian in Perth   Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:22 pm GMT
English:

I'll make some amends and say that I like your handle! :-) No offense meant, and as I'm sure you're a typically tolerant Engish(wo)man I know none will be taken. Even though I'm a Scot I have no desire to "separate the English from the rest of us in this truly united United Kingdom of ours, politically or in any other way.

Although bilingualism is indeed a part of life in a small part of Scotland, and in a much larger area of Wales proportionately, I don't think for a split second that the Scots or the Welsh are any better, or any more proficient, than are the English when it comes to learning a foreign Language, or for having an overwhelming desire to do so in the face of the universality of English, which is the true native common Language of all of us in these islands.

I do think, however, that maybe the Scots and, even more so perhaps, the Welsh may find certain foreign Languages easier to learn because of similarities between Welsh and these other Languages in sentence construction and word order and, especially, pronunciation because Welsh contains certain sounds which also exist in some of these other tongues. That's true for us Scots to a lesser degree.

In this regard I reckon maybe that we both have a little bit of an advantage than you English, but as I say that doesn't make us any more keen to learn these other Languages. We are just as guilty as the English when we say what the hell - everybody abroad knows English anyway!

You are spot on about our multi-cultural society in the UK and we are so used to hearing a myriad of other Languages all around us, not only in the urban areas either. Those groups who have been here for one or more generations do, of course, retain a knowledge of their parents/grandparents' native Language very often.

I'm in Perth (the Scottish one and the original one!) for the weekend, and hearing Polish spoken on the streets is now a feature of life here like it is everywhere else - but the Poles are more interested in learning English or, in most cases, perfecting it and don't seem to have the inclination of teaching us Brits Polish, not that there would be much point in them doing that anyway!
guest   Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:23 pm GMT
<<One correspondent used lower case for the first person pronoun - absolutely no excuse for that - just pure idleness! :-) i go bonkers when I see that.>>

If enough people start making the same mistake, i suppose it'll become the new standard. :)

Note: in the "I hate spam" box, it looks like you still have to type in "I ..."
Milton   Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:47 pm GMT
Britisher is still used, in Indian English.
As for incompetence...for the British, even RP is difficult to master, imagine another language. We can forgive them...But at least, use RP for us to understand you.
that's all