Belgium languages

JLK   Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:20 am GMT
I have no doubt that Sarkozy will improve the French economy, but for now unemployment is high and growth isn't great.
Link   Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:07 am GMT
Guest :
« There are 4 Belgiums:
Walloons which speak French
Flemish speakers
Brussels, the only bilingual zone in Belgium
The tiny German community ».

Brussels belongs to the Flamish part, just like Paris belongs to France and London to England. The fact that a lot of people speak French in Brussels is not decisive, otherwise the fact that a lot of people speak Indian in London and Arab in Paris would threaten the status of these old cities or at least of certain districts of them.
greg   Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:29 pm GMT
Link : « Brussels belongs to the Flamish part, just like Paris belongs to France and London to England. »

Non, justement. Bruxelles n'appartient pas à la Flandre. D'autre part c'est une ville francophone avant tout, et accessoirement flamandophone. C'est pas tout à fait la même situation que celles des Indiens à Londres...

Pour ton info : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Région_de_Bruxelles-Capitale .
JLk   Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:35 pm GMT
Greg: Brussels is geographically in Flanders. There's just a ton of french speaking immigrants looking for jobs.
Guest   Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:07 pm GMT
Brussels (the most important city in Belgium) is mostly francophone, even flemish speakers use French more than their mother tongue in everyday situations.
JLK   Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:17 pm GMT
Josh: Brussels is a histroicaly a dutch speaking city. Only when Napolean invaded did the french become the majority. A knowledge of dutch is essential for doing business in Belgium. The flemish make up more than 60% of the polulation and contribute much more to the economy than their french speaking compatriots in the south. The GDP per capita in Flanders is considerbaly higher than Wallonia. This is why the Flemish want indepence. The french speakers are holding them back lol.
Guest   Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:07 pm GMT
Flanders government is progressive, Walloon government is communist.
Communist like living on others' people income. Flanders makes money for Walloon lazy asses to spend. It shouldn't be like that. Walonia is one of the least developed countries of European Union (excluding former socialist countries, and including Slovenia), while Flanders is among top 10 most developed parts of EU.
Guest   Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:32 pm GMT
The Walloons are commies? Come on, this must be a joke. Nobody is communist in Europe anymore.
JLK   Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:08 pm GMT
The guy who posted right after me is right on. However, I think Socialist would have been the appropriate term.
Guest   Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:11 pm GMT
I think that you mean socialdemocracy. It is not the same as socialism/comunism -
JLK   Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:15 am GMT
I'm just saying that Brussels was not historically a francophone city. It was only because a worthless tyrant aka(Napolean) decided to put the french minority in control of the country. If Flanders became a separate country Brussels would be included and french would be rather insignificant language.
Guest   Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:25 am GMT
JLK, French is more important than Flemish in Brussels, it is the lingua franca and Flemish does not, it is pure facts.
JLK   Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:16 am GMT
Neither languages are particularly important in Brussels. The number of households where arabic and other immigrant languages far outnumber speakers of french or dutch. Broken english is the lingua franca...That said, I must stress how important dutch is for employment in brussels. Monolingual french speakers aren't valued there. I know you're a radical francophile but please try to understand this.
JLK   Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:30 am GMT
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" * 51 % of the Brussels population are native French-speakers (monolingual);
* 8.5 % of the Brussels population are native Dutch-speakers (monolingual);"

That would imply that over 40% of the population of Brussels is an immigrant. That statistic is probably too conservative too. Perhaps, I exaggerated a little but the point is you are very likely to hear a language other than french on the streets of Brussels.

By the way, I'm neither flemish nor belgian nor dutch,etc...I'm english/american so my position is neutral.
Link   Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:44 am GMT
Josh Lalonde :
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
<<Brussels belongs to the Flamish part, just like Paris belongs to France and London to England. The fact that a lot of people speak French in Brussels is not decisive, otherwise the fact that a lot of people speak Indian in London and Arab in Paris would threaten the status of these old cities or at least of certain districts of them.>>

..... It's been inhabited by francophones for 100+ years, so comparing it to immigration in London and Paris is stupid.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<>>>

Why should the time be an argument here?



Josh Lalonde :
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
<<The number of households where arabic and other immigrant languages far outnumber speakers of french or dutch.>>

That's is ridiculous. Did you read the Wikipedia page?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels#Languages:
" * 51 % of the Brussels population are native French-speakers (monolingual);
* 8.5 % of the Brussels population are native Dutch-speakers (monolingual);
* 10.2 % have both Dutch and French as a mother tongue or speak both languages;
* 9.1% of monolingual French or Dutch-speakers learn the other language later in life (this probably concerns mostly French-speakers who learn Dutch [citation needed])
* 19.8% speak French in combination with a language other than Dutch"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

If you take out a piece of a country you can make any statistics on it. The results then only depends on the choice and dimension of the piece. If you take appropriate districts in Paris or London you will quickly proove that French or English are minority languages there and claim independence of it or at least a special treatment and seperate laws.

Brussels is an old Flamish city with Flamish name in the middle of Flamish territory. What is the justification to separate it from it`s roots?