Spanish learning French, French learning Spanish

Yop   Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:04 pm GMT
I pretty much agree with Xie. I should add that I like very much Pimsleur view on learning a language: you should start with audio-only material.
Guest   Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:44 pm GMT
I'm mainly interested in grammar and syntax. why should I start with audio-only material? I need good grammars and texts
Yop   Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:59 pm GMT
<I'm mainly interested in grammar and syntax. why should I start with audio-only material? I need good grammars and texts>

You know what is best for you of course. I was only sharing what I prefer to focus on. Namely, pronounciation and developing an "inuitive understanding" of what is correct, as Xie put it. Grammar can be learnt later. This is, after all, how we all learnt our native language.
Rolando   Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:25 pm GMT
I think that the French Grammar is similar to Spanish Grammer, but the Italian Pronunciation with almost the same with Spanish Pronunciation, but the French Pronunciation is nothing like Spanish (& Italian) Pronunciation, but the Italian Grammer is a big huge mess compare to Spanish Grammer...
Guest   Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:48 pm GMT
Only who doesn't know Italian well can say that Italian and Spanish have similar pronunciation! Italian has many sounds which don't exist in standard Spanish: sh, gl, dz, tz, v, gj, z sounds. Italian e and o vowels can be pronounced open and closed so Italian has 7 vowel sounds and not five like in Spanish. Besides all consonants in Italian can be pronounced simple or double. On the other hand, Italian doesn't have Jota, D, c/z b/v sounds. I'm sorry but I have to say that foreigners tend to simplify italian pronunciation.
Guest   Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:25 pm GMT
"Only who doesn't know Italian well can say that Italian and Spanish have similar pronunciation! Italian has many sounds which don't exist in standard Spanish: sh, gl, dz, tz, v, gj, z sounds"

Sh exists in Spanish. It is heavily used in Southconian Spanish.

Gl is very similar to the Castilian LL.

I agree that some sounds are different, but overall Italian and Spanish are considerably similar from the phonetic point of view.
Guest   Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:28 pm GMT
I was talking about Standard Spanish and Italian.
Guest   Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:44 pm GMT
Castilian LL is very standard, if you refer to Standard European Spanish.
Spanish is not like Italian, which is spoken in only a country. There is not really "standard Spanish" but several dialects which share a few common rules but to pronounce Spanish with the same sounds is not one of them. Some sounds which do not exist in European Spanish do exist in Argentinian Spanish, and both variants are "standard" to the same degree. Hence "sh" belongs to the Spanish language. As an european spanish speaker I personally find more weird to say "podís" and things like that which are present in American Spanish rather than sounds such as "sh", which enrich the Spanish language.
Guest   Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:52 pm GMT
ok Italian has jota sound because it's widely used in Tuscany. Tuscany is an important italian Region.
LL sound is deseapping in Spanish. Most people tend to pronounce LL like Y. Moreover original LL sound is quite different from Italian GL.
Guest   Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:57 pm GMT
The fact that many people don't use LL does not mean that it is not standard. In fact to distinguish LL and Y is seen as very classy and standard in Spain. For example Camilo Jose Cela, and other writers like him always pronounced LL this way, it's not a dialectal variety but true Castilian Spanish. The fact that this sound is dissapearing is another question. There are also many folks in Italy who don't pronounce closed e and o properly, does this mean that it is not standard? I've heard LL and GL and they seem quite similar. Probably you didn't hear proper Castilian LL in your life.
Guest   Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:01 pm GMT
In Italian Gl is always pronounced as a double consonants so it sounds quite different from LL.
Guest   Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:04 pm GMT
You have a degree in Spanish and think that LL/Y distinction is dialectal in Spain? Well, if that is the case your university sucks because you are saying that the members of RAE, who all of them pronounce LL , pronounce a strange dialectal sound . To not distinguish between LL and Y is a dialectal feature, a southern one to be more precise, which is certainly spreading in Spain, but the finest standard Castilian Spanish spoken by writers, members of RAE and so on, has the LL sound.
Guest   Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:10 pm GMT
If Gl is a double consonant then Spanish has double consonants too, because LL and Gl are the same.
Xie   Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:49 am GMT
About Spanish: so, what could I do if I'm indifferent towards European/Latin Am. Spanish, but would probably come across learning materials for both? I'm already encountering similar problems with English. I must choose, yes, but how exactly are materials presented? I guess those from America are mostly teaching the Latin Am. variant.
Guest   Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:52 am GMT
Many people in US really learn European Spanish. For example they are taught vosotros/tu, instead of vos , for example.