Or perhaps -- Oh bother, England has scored a second goal!
Which one do you think is grammatically correct?
Paul N.
Which one do you think is grammatically correct?
Paul N.
Oh bother, England have scored a second goal!
Personally I would say 'England HAVE' when referring to a sports team (because I'm thinking of the team as a group, and therefore plural). I would say 'England HAS many great pubs' for example, when thinking about the country, as a singular entity.
I'm sure there's no consensus on this, though! :-)
(BTW, it's not 'bother, England have.....', it's 'bloody fantastic, England have....') :-)
I'm sure there's no consensus on this, though! :-)
(BTW, it's not 'bother, England have.....', it's 'bloody fantastic, England have....') :-)
I would say England has scored. It's just one country, singular. It's true its a team, but it's still ONE team... so I would say has. (I'm not English so maybe I'm wrong)
It depends where you are from.
In American English, it's "England has.."
In British English, it's "England have..."
Again, British English has it right. Why? Because what pronoun can you replace "England" with? In Britain, the commentator says "They have scored!"
But what do they say in America when a team scores? Does the commentator say "It has scored!"? No, I don't think so. The American commentator would say "THEY have scored!"
So in that case, it seems strange that the Americans also say "England HAS scored."
In American English, it's "England has.."
In British English, it's "England have..."
Again, British English has it right. Why? Because what pronoun can you replace "England" with? In Britain, the commentator says "They have scored!"
But what do they say in America when a team scores? Does the commentator say "It has scored!"? No, I don't think so. The American commentator would say "THEY have scored!"
So in that case, it seems strange that the Americans also say "England HAS scored."
Whenever England scores a goal we certainly don't say anything as tame as "oh! bother!" We're much more inclined to say *!+!!88%*!!
I wonder when anybody last said 'oh bother'!! Sounds wonderfully old-fashioned. Oh gosh darn it!
Candy,
American kids still get exposed to "oh bother" and terms like that from reading Winnie the Pooh and watching Thomas the Tank Engine.
American kids still get exposed to "oh bother" and terms like that from reading Winnie the Pooh and watching Thomas the Tank Engine.
<<I wonder when anybody last said 'oh bother'!! Sounds wonderfully old-fashioned. Oh gosh darn it!>>
Haha, my grandpa would say "oh, bother!"
Anyway, I would say "England has scored"--"England have scored" sounds off to my ears but I know some English speakers do use it (especially in Britain) so that's fine. In American English, collective nouns are usually treated as singular referents, so we say "the team is stronger this year" or "the couple wants to see the house on Monday" instead of "the team are stronger this year" or "the couple want to see the house on Monday." Either way works, but it just depends on what usage you're modeling your speech off of.
Haha, my grandpa would say "oh, bother!"
Anyway, I would say "England has scored"--"England have scored" sounds off to my ears but I know some English speakers do use it (especially in Britain) so that's fine. In American English, collective nouns are usually treated as singular referents, so we say "the team is stronger this year" or "the couple wants to see the house on Monday" instead of "the team are stronger this year" or "the couple want to see the house on Monday." Either way works, but it just depends on what usage you're modeling your speech off of.
I didn't know about the difference between british and american english.. England has scored just seemes right to me... Where i live thay say (translated): England HAS scored or they HAVE scored.
But I don't really know and if you (adam) say its HAVE I'll just have to believe it (I assume you know a lot about english)
But I don't really know and if you (adam) say its HAVE I'll just have to believe it (I assume you know a lot about english)
<< (I assume you know a lot about english) >>
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Lidewij, you must be new around here!! :-)
(Welcome!)
This has/have question is interesting - my German students often ask me about it, as in German these words are singular (Deutschland IST Weltmeister, for example). They always ask if they should say 'my company has blah blah' or 'my company have blah blah'. 'Have' sounds more 'right' to me, but probably that's because I'm British.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Lidewij, you must be new around here!! :-)
(Welcome!)
This has/have question is interesting - my German students often ask me about it, as in German these words are singular (Deutschland IST Weltmeister, for example). They always ask if they should say 'my company has blah blah' or 'my company have blah blah'. 'Have' sounds more 'right' to me, but probably that's because I'm British.
It's true -- collective nouns are often treated as singular in the US and plural in the UK. It's all in what you're used to.
In the US, you would say something like "the Oakland Raiders HAVE scored again" (or not -- depending on what kind of a season they're having), but if you drop the "Raiders" part, you would have to say "Oakland HAS scored again." So Adam's theory of pronoun replacement doesn't really hold true.
In the US, you would say something like "the Oakland Raiders HAVE scored again" (or not -- depending on what kind of a season they're having), but if you drop the "Raiders" part, you would have to say "Oakland HAS scored again." So Adam's theory of pronoun replacement doesn't really hold true.
"Whenever England scores a goal we certainly don't say anything as tame as "oh! bother!" We're much more inclined to say *!+!!88%*!! "
The Scots support two teams - Scotland, and whoever's playing England.
The Scots support two teams - Scotland, and whoever's playing England.
"Anyway, I would say "England has scored"--"England have scored" sounds off to my ears but I know some English speakers do use it (especially in Britain) so that's fine. In American English, collective nouns are usually treated as singular referents, so we say "the team is stronger this year" or "the couple wants to see the house on Monday" instead of "the team are stronger this year" or "the couple want to see the house on Monday." Either way works, but it just depends on what usage you're modeling your speech off of. "
But the problem in American English arises when you want to replace the noun (England) woth a pronoun (he, she, it, they etc).
In the US, they say "England HAS scored." But what if you want to use a pronoun instead? I've never heard an American say "It has scored!" That just doesn't make sense. You would say "THEY have scored."
So, in that sense, it's illogical that the Americans say "England HAS scored." One minute you use the singular (has), the next you use the plural (they).
In British English, we just use the plural all the time.
But the problem in American English arises when you want to replace the noun (England) woth a pronoun (he, she, it, they etc).
In the US, they say "England HAS scored." But what if you want to use a pronoun instead? I've never heard an American say "It has scored!" That just doesn't make sense. You would say "THEY have scored."
So, in that sense, it's illogical that the Americans say "England HAS scored." One minute you use the singular (has), the next you use the plural (they).
In British English, we just use the plural all the time.
"England HAVE scored" may sound illogical, but remember that we say "have" in British English because we also can say "THEY have scored. " Even in the US, when a team scores, they don't say "Yeeeeaahh! It has scored!" You always say "They have scored". So, American English should really say "England HAVE scored" because they use a plural pronoun, anyway.
There are many things that are illogical in American English that are more logical in British English.
For example - the date. In British English, we write it as day/month/year. Starting with the smallest unit and up to the largest - 04/11/05.
But the Americans have it all mixed up. They have it month/day/year - 11/04/05.
There are many things that are illogical in American English that are more logical in British English.
For example - the date. In British English, we write it as day/month/year. Starting with the smallest unit and up to the largest - 04/11/05.
But the Americans have it all mixed up. They have it month/day/year - 11/04/05.
It's not solely British English that writes today's date as 04/11/05 as we've discussed before in here and which is not all that important anyway. The rest of Europe write the date the same way as we do.
Unless I'm mistaken I think it's only in the USA that they write it the other way round and I agree that is illogical as it's out of sequence....day then month then year. An American would put me down as being born on the Fourth of July instead of the Seventh of April!
Unless I'm mistaken I think it's only in the USA that they write it the other way round and I agree that is illogical as it's out of sequence....day then month then year. An American would put me down as being born on the Fourth of July instead of the Seventh of April!