Fifth and Sixth

Simon   Wednesday, June 25, 2003, 15:09 GMT
These words must be complicated for non-native speakers to pronounce. In fact, many native speakers must do too as many reduce them phonetically to "fith" and "sikth".

The thing is - I don't. I pronounce all the consonants. I come from London but have moved around a lot. Does anyone have any information on what accents etc. pronounce these words properly and which ones don't.
Baba   Wednesday, June 25, 2003, 15:29 GMT

See the dictionary and practise your pronunciation a loud. It works because I did that in my first beginning.

Good luck.
Kabam   Wednesday, June 25, 2003, 15:41 GMT
>>>Baba, Simon Said he has no problem with this words since he comes from London. But thank for your advice, since many learners may find it helpfull.

>>>Simon, I have no problem with this words. What I find hard in English is the vowels and the numerous shorcuts which prevent me to recognize the words, sometimes.
Kabam   Wednesday, June 25, 2003, 15:43 GMT
prevent me from recognizing.
Jacob   Wednesday, June 25, 2003, 20:54 GMT
Simon, the corruptions I've heard most frequently are "fift" and "sixt" instead of "fifth" and "sixth." Sometimes even something like "fiff" for 5th and something like "sikss" for 6th. I'm thinking of the rural Appalachian speech I heard growing up. I think "fith" and "sikth" sound really strange, and don't recall hearing those before.

When I try to do the "The sixth sick sheik's sixth sheep's sick" tongue twister rapidly I end up collapsing "sixth" into "sikss."

I can't immediately think of anywhere else in the language where the combination of k-s-th sounds occurs! And it seems to me that we actually insert some kind of stop in between the s and th, more like k-s-t-th. My tongue definitely hits the back of my teeth for a `t' sound before moving between the teeth to articulate the `th.'
BenIII   Wednesday, June 25, 2003, 21:00 GMT
My lisp prevents me from pronouncing "sixth" correctly, though I don't have too much trouble pronouncing "fifth".
Clark   Wednesday, June 25, 2003, 23:52 GMT
In Cockney, "fifth" and "sixth" turns into "fif" and "sixf."
Jim   Thursday, June 26, 2003, 00:13 GMT
I pronounce all the consonants too. I come from Sydney and I too have moved around a lot. I can't speak for my whole country though.
Simon   Thursday, June 26, 2003, 07:56 GMT
Clark, not everyone from London is a Cockney. I basically said that because I don't sound so typically London anymore and people whose accent sound like mine tend to say the corrupted versions. I meant more middle class inner London speech. I have never sounded Cockney much as it would make me sound hard and "salt of the earth". Maybe it's just because like Jim I have moved around a lot.
Clark   Thursday, June 26, 2003, 18:36 GMT
I do not believe I said EVERYONE from London is a Cockney, did I. I rather like the London accent (non-Cockney). The blond haired lady from Changing Rooms (Linda, I think she is called) has this accent.
Fisher   Friday, June 27, 2003, 00:14 GMT
> In Cockney, "fifth" and "sixth" turns into "fif" and "sixf."

I think "sixf" is much tougher to pronounce than the standard. How do they articulate the "xf" combination?
Eddy   Friday, June 27, 2003, 01:29 GMT
Do cockneys pronounce sixth as "sixf"? I've never noticed that. But cockneys do say things like "fink" instead of "think".
Clark   Friday, June 27, 2003, 01:51 GMT
Saying "sixTH" is harder to me than saying "sixF."
Simon   Friday, June 27, 2003, 08:14 GMT
Ok, I say "siksth" and "fif-th" (although it's possibly that the "s"/"f" and "th" sounds merge into a halfway sound rather than get said in their pure forms).

What do you say?
Clark   Friday, June 27, 2003, 19:10 GMT
In America, we always pronounce the "th" at the end. However, there are some people who do not, most noteably, the blacks (they say "fif and sixf).