Puritans and English

Clark   Sunday, July 06, 2003, 10:56 GMT
Just out of curiosity, did the Puritans in America feel that they were English?

Also, in the 1500's and early 1600's in England, was Old English seen as a noble language to study? I mean, was it something to take pride in Englishmen of the day to speak the language of their ancestors?
Tremmert   Sunday, July 06, 2003, 17:55 GMT
I heard the Puritans wanted to speak Hebrew in America - make it into a holy land or something.
shom   Sunday, July 06, 2003, 18:40 GMT
I'm happy it didn't work.
Heaven   Sunday, July 06, 2003, 18:43 GMT
Tremmert
Did the puritans spoke Hebrew at that time or did they wanted to learn it ? and why ? Hebrew wasn't really spoken at that time and until the beginning of the last century.
yuiop   Sunday, July 06, 2003, 20:52 GMT
Between 1400 and 1600, English experienced changes in sound that made Shakespeare's language quite different from that of Chauser. One modification was the loss of an unstressed vowel sound at the end of some words. For example, space, grace, and large were pronounced as two syllables by Chaucer but as one by Shakespeare. The -e reperesented a vowel sound for Chaucer. It was not 'silent.' Likewise, the modern words looked and loved would have had two syllables for Chaucer.
Clark   Sunday, July 06, 2003, 22:38 GMT
I have heard the same thing about the Puritans wanting to adopt Hebrew. I do not what what came of the idea though.
sam   Sunday, July 06, 2003, 23:37 GMT
Were purians jews ?!
Simon   Monday, July 07, 2003, 09:32 GMT
I imagine that puritans - who had travelled all that way for religious freedom - saw themselves first and foremost as "Christians" and perhaps of their specific sect. Nationalism is a fairly recent invention. But I imagine - without joking - that they might have hated the French.
tana   Monday, July 07, 2003, 10:54 GMT
Why did they hate the French ?
Simon   Monday, July 07, 2003, 11:09 GMT
Ok, I should explain this.

The English and the French are traditional enemies. This goes back a long way. I think this deep rooted rivalry and animosity would have crossed the atlantic and partly explains why anti-French feeling in the US comes so naturally to them.

What I really mean is that though they may not have identified with being English they may have shared some outlooks with the English as a direct heritage.
Ashley[1]   Friday, July 11, 2003, 18:39 GMT
John Adams was a Puritan and we all know he had no desire whatsoever to be English.
Clark   Friday, July 11, 2003, 21:23 GMT
Well, after studying a bit about the Puritans (I have two great-great-grandparents who were full-blooded Puritans descendents), I can tell you that they saw themselves as "English-Colonials." They knew they were not born in England, some of them, but they also knew that their parents, or gradparents were all from England; plus, they were governed by the Crown. So in short, yes, they saw themselves as being at least "part" English if not full blooded English. And like Simon said, nationalism was a very new thing when the Puritans arrived in America.

As for the French, I can imagine that they hated each other (French and the Puritans). I think this because the Puritans saw themsleves as being Englsh, and the English in England for the most part hated the French. So it would just seem natural for the Puritans to bring with them the hate for the French from the Old World.

On a bit different note, I sometimes ask myself when "being a Puritan" ceased to be. My guess would be about the 1730's. Because at this time immigration from England started to decline and immigration from Germany, Scotland and Ireland started to increase. And when non-English immigration started to increase, a large number of Puritan [-descendents] started to move west to the frontier. And when this move took place, it seems that the Puritans became "Americans."

And then when the Revolutionary War came about, those loyal to the Crown moved north to Maine and Canada (as did many of my ancestors), and those who wanted to break away from England were truly "Americans" at this time. And many in the Appalachians consdered themselves to be American over subjects of the Crown.
Simon   Monday, July 14, 2003, 06:32 GMT
One other thing. Puritans were protestant radicals so to speak. France is traditionally Catholic and certainly was in those days. Many French protestants took refuge in England. As far as I know, Qu├ębec has a history of domination by the Catholic Church.

So, I imagine that the English colonials were by and large protestant and the French colonials were Catholic. This in those days was probably a far greater issue than being English and French.
Martin   Monday, July 14, 2003, 23:07 GMT
And England was glad to see the Puritans go. I feel no pity for them. What
they did to the indians in North America shows you their hypocrisy.
Clark   Tuesday, July 15, 2003, 05:56 GMT
Well in that case, I feel no pity for the English for the way they treated the Welsh, Scottish and the Irish. Not to mention the Indians, Africans, etc...

Come on man; grow up! That is in the past.