"TH" vs. "F"

Marcelo   Wednesday, July 23, 2003, 04:48 GMT
Thank you all for the responses :)
to Julian   Wednesday, July 23, 2003, 17:47 GMT
Wonderful thing, tolerance?
Juan   Thursday, July 24, 2003, 00:11 GMT
I like the way ebonic speaking people sound. I think is cool.
To Juan   Thursday, July 24, 2003, 05:07 GMT
If that's so, then you'll love this (an oldie but goodie):

Bid Daddy's Rap

Yo, Bid Daddy upstairs,
You be chillin
So be yo hood
You be sayin' it, I be doin' it
In this here hood and yo's
Gimme some eats
And cut me some slack,
So's I be doin' it to dem dat diss me
don't be pushing me into no jive
and keep dem Crips away
'Cause you always be da Man.


The Lord's Prayer

Our Father, who art in heaven
Hallowed be thy name
Thy Kingdom come
Thy will be done
On earth as it is in heaven
Give us this day our daily bread
And forgive us our trespasses
As we forgive those who trespasses against us
And lead us not into temptation
But deliver us from evil
For thine is the Kingdom, the power and the glory, forever and ever.
...   Thursday, July 24, 2003, 05:12 GMT
Ebonics Homework

Leroy is 18 and in the 8th grade. Homework is hard for him.

One day, Leroy got an easy homework assignment. All he had to do was put each of the following vocabulary words in a sentence. Here's what he wrote.

1. HOTEL - I gave my girlfriend da crabs and the HOTEL everybody.
2. RECTUM - I had two Cadillacs, but my ol' lady RECTUM both.
3. DISAPPOINTMENT - My parole officer tol me if I miss DISAPPOINTMENT
they gonna send me back to the big house.
4. FORECLOSE - If I pay alimony this month, I'll have no money
5. CATACOMB - Don King was at the fight the other night, Man,
somebody give that CATACOMB.
6. PENIS - I went to da doctor and he handed me a cup and said PENIS.
7. ISRAEL - Alonso tried to sell me a Rolex, I said Man, that looks
fake. He said, No, ISRAEL.
8. UNDERMINE - There is a fine lookin' hoe livin' in the apartment
9. TRIPOLI - I was gonna buy my old lady a bra but I couldn't
find no TRIPOLI.
10. STAIN - My mother-in-law axed if I was STAIN for dinner again.
11. SELDOM - My cousin gave me two tickets to the Knicks game, so I
12. ODYSSEY - I told my bro, you ODYSSEY the tits on this hoe.
13. HORDE - My sister got into trouble because she HORDE around in
14. INCOME - I just got in bed wit dis hoe and INCOME my wife.
15. HONOR - At the rape trial, the judge axed my buddy, who be HONOR
16. FORTIFY - I axed da hoe how much? And she say FORTIFY.
HiyaK. & Amoni   Friday, July 25, 2003, 01:54 GMT
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Dat wuz hella funny! LOL!
Anyway, I, Kiani, only think it's ok to speak that when among friends and stuff. But I'd feel bad for the person if they really spoke like that and had an interview to go to.
That reminds me, Amoni, of a story.
So, I was visiting a really good friend who spoke ebonics:
Her: Hey, Amoni! Whussup? Hi you doin'?
Me: Nothin much. I just came to visit.
Her: Come own in. Ah'm finna watch a movie dat Ah got from da video sto'. You seen Scary Movie 2?
Me: No! You have that? Cool!
Her: Ah herd it wuz hella funny! *We walked to the living room.* Oh, gurl, you neva guess who Ah sawd at da video sto'!
Me: Oo, you better tell me!
Her:~ring, ring~ Ah telya afta Ah git da phone. *She picks up the phone* (High voice, in proper English:) Hello?--Oh, hi, Mrs. ****!--Yes, you called the right pers--Well, they didn't show up at the audition so, of course, they weren't on the list--No, no--They can still do it because they're already *in* the orchestra. They just won't be able to get a high *seat* in the orchestra. Well, if they are very good the--Well, it's up to the conductor. That's the way he does--I see-- I'll talk to him. No problem.--Sure! No problem. He'll understand.-- I'll see them on Monday at rehearsal. You have a good night, now. Bye.
Me: You sound different on the phone.~laugh~
Her: Aw you know me. 'I have to act professional.' Ah git calls fo dat kinda stuff cuz Ah'm a *student co-ordinater* of da group, ya know? Inyways, wut wuz Ah talkin' 'bout?
(**I changed a few things because I don't have that good a memory.**)
(Kiani) I remember, you told me that.
We guess she's aware it isn't a proper way to speak (because in presentations and when reading aloud and stuff she doesn't sound that way.) It's comfortable to speak that way, according to her (I, Amoni, asked her). She sounds better and funnier to me when she speaks Ebonics, because it's gives her a comical sound (with the high-squeeky voice she has.) It makes the jokes she tells more funnier. Plus, that's the way I met her so it's normal for me to hear her that way. (But, I'm used to her with her proper/formal speech whenever it comes to that.)
(We're throwing a slumber party later tonight that's why I, Kiani, am at her house. It's sad that we are on the 'Net instead of preparing...we suck.)
Kiani & Amoni
Henry   Wednesday, July 30, 2003, 02:09 GMT
I have to say that white Americans sound kinda whiny when compared to black Americans. White people higher pitch voices. I've noticed that black Americans have deeper voices, even the women, and speak in a more clear and concise way. I wished I could speak like them.
To Henry   Wednesday, July 30, 2003, 03:14 GMT
>I've noticed that black Americans...speak in a more clear and concise way.

That's open to conjecture.
ChicaJuarez   Friday, August 01, 2003, 08:33 GMT
I understand everybody fine. Unless they have an accent. Though I have to say that I admire the Chinese accent that this lady has and she was talking to me in (I hate to say 'broken') 'her' English. She had a funny way of speaking but it was neat. Her sentances were set up almost but not quite similar Yoda's in Star Wars (I'm not really sure though she could have had a Japanese accent. I can never tell nowadays.)
I'm only saying this from my point of view or my experiences so don't be offended by what I say. I'm only 14 and I know I have alot to learn but this is a discussion, and I'm just a newbie with something to say.
ANYWAY, (before I get carried away) I say that both blacks and whites have a clear way of speaking. I agree that most black women have that low clear voice (Not in ebonics or whatever) Not all the time but I've noticed that on the phone I can tell when a woman is black or not. Also most white women that I hear on the phone (like professional/phone-etticate trained women) have that high voice.
The black women/girls that speak ebonics to me seem to have different phone voices when ever I call them. Like you HiyaKiani and Amoni, I've witnessed an African girl change on me when doing "professional" voices. Especially my auntie. (She's family by marriage ) She is studying criminal justice and has an Assoc. of Arts in music from 5-6 years ago. She did some debate or speech thing for a few units (or credits whatever it is in college) and she sounded very nice. She also did this R.O.C.T. (R.O.T.C.?) which she had to yell alot of stuff and do military-/Army-like stuff. I swear you'd never know she was crazy at home. It's pretty normal to me how she casually speaks ebonics when she's with her friends on over at my house. (Not so much does she speak it around her mother as her mom doesn't allow her to speak that way at home. Mothers.)
I won't even talk about men. (Sheesh) Especially my bf.
By the way, I'm Mexican and Navajo. I knew Spanish untill I was like 9 now I don't know it anymore. My parents don't have an accent and they don't speak Spanish much. (My dad has a NY accent to tell the truth. He's from there and he goes to New York in the summertimes, and holidays with Mom. I stay in Cali most of the time at my sister place. I won't go into that history much.) I have the Valley Girl accent. I picked it up in school from friends while I was still developing English. I learned English and Spanish at the same time as a child but I knew more Spanish. (I used to say sentances like, "Ella sat en mi chair and no move from.") I find myself rolling my R's at times though but less and less as time goes by. OK, I hope that explaines me a bit.
:)I'm done!:)
Ca. ESL Teacher   Saturday, August 09, 2003, 22:53 GMT
Marcelo...you can't hear the 'th' sound becasue you don't have an equivalent for it in Spanish (I assume your native language is spanish). My teenaged students have the same problem. (Although most professional athletes do say 'wif'). Practice saying it, and you'll be able to hear it better. You have to bite your tongue and hiss, like a MadrileƱo. Exaggerate it and practice. It will sound silly to you, but it will help.
wondering   Sunday, August 10, 2003, 12:27 GMT
I've noticed that in Spain people say z like th, eg Ibiza = Ibitha, Zaragoza = Tharagotha. Why do they do that there and not in Latin America?
Marcelo   Sunday, August 10, 2003, 15:20 GMT
I'm from Brazil and my native language is Portuguese. Can't relize differences between Spanish in Europe and in Latin America and I don't know how a "MadrileƱo" sounds like, although we can understand much of what a Spanish speaker says.

I've reading about some English tongue twisters like:

"The thirty-three thieves thought that they thrilled the throne throughout Thursday"

"Something in a thirty-acre thermal thicket of thorns and thistles thumped and thundered threatening the three-D thoughts of Matthew the thug - although, theatrically, it was only the thirteen-thousand thistles and thorns through the underneath of his thigh that the thirty year old thug thought of that morning."

I imagine that those are difficult to say to English native speakers as they have many "th" in sequence. I found it difficult to say even phrases with "th" following "s", so "I went to the party with some friends" is a tongue twister to me, hehe.
Thanks for the tips :-)
Jay   Monday, August 11, 2003, 01:23 GMT

Jeez, do you think I wouldn't have to read all this racist crap if this message board didn't allow for anonymous posting?
Jay again   Monday, August 11, 2003, 01:41 GMT

also, some readings on "ebonics" or AAVE.
(and this one is especially nice) http://www.linguistlist.org/issues/8/8-54.html

Finally, remember: no language or language dialect is, or can be deemed linguistically superior to any other.