Pronouncing the plural S endings

Oliveira   Saturday, May 08, 2004, 18:18 GMT
Hello everyone,

I was doing some exercises in a workbook when I came across one about Plural S Pronounciation. For more that I may have heard to the audio I couldn´t totally understand how to identify and choose whether I´m gonna pronounce the /s/, /z/ or /iz/ sound.
Could anybody give me some clues about this topic?
I´d be most grateful.

Thank you in advance.

Oliveira
English   Saturday, May 08, 2004, 18:31 GMT
If it's the plural of a word that ends in the ''s'', ''z'', ''j'', ''sh'', ''zh'', or ''ch'' sound it's is. I've heard some people say ''ghostes'' before but that is not a word. If the word doesn't end in the [s], [z], [dZ], [S], [Z], or [tS] sound the plural is not [iz].

If it's the plural of a word that ends in a voiceless consonant it's [z] and if it's the plural of a voiced consonant it's [s]. If it's a vowel the plural is always pronounced [z].

''cats and dogs'' is pronounced [k@ts @nd da:gz] in North America and [k@ts @nd dogz] elsewhere.
English   Saturday, May 08, 2004, 18:32 GMT
''If it's the plural of a word that ends in the ''s'', ''z'', ''j'', ''sh'', ''zh'', or ''ch'' sound it's is.''

I meant,

''If it's the plural of a word that ends in the ''s'', ''z'', ''j'', ''sh'', ''zh'', or ''ch'' sound it's [iz].''
Oliveira   Saturday, May 08, 2004, 18:35 GMT
uh... I guess your clues helped to clear up my doubts... and... if I´m not asking too much, could you please provide some examples to the /iz/ sound?
Smith   Saturday, May 08, 2004, 19:26 GMT
Bridges-[bridZiz]
matches-[m@tSiz]
beiges-[beiZiz]
dishes-[diS..z]
guesses-[gesiz]
buzzes-[b^ziz]
Jim   Monday, May 10, 2004, 06:05 GMT
Engilsh wrote "If it's the plural of a word that ends in a voiceless consonant it's [z] and if it's the plural of a voiced consonant it's [s]." I guess that that's just some kind of typo. It's the other way around.

Here's an easy way to remember it.

a) If the singular form ends in a hisser or husher, then it's [..z] or [iz]; otherwise

b) if the singular form ends in a voiceless sound, then it's [s] and

c) if the singular form ends in a voiced sound, then it's [z].

Now that doesn't make sense without some explaination. Hissers are [s] and [z] and hushers are [S] and [Z]. But what about [tS] and [dZ]? They are affricatives but if you look ... if you listen carefully you'll find that they end in [S] and [Z] anyway. So you have:

a) If the singular form ends in a [s], [z], [S], [Z], [tS] or [dZ], then it's [..z] or [iz]; otherwise ...

This is just what English said. I mentioned voiced and voiceless sounds not consonants and vowels. I was just generalising. In English some consonants are voiced and others are voiceless. But all vowels are voiced. We thus can rewrite b) and split c) in two (one part about vowels and the other about consonants).

b) if the singular form ends in a voiceless consonant, then it's [s];

cc) if the singular form ends in a voiced consonant, then it's [z] and

cv) if the singular form ends in a vowel, then it's [z].

Again this is was English wrote (except (s)he got cc) and b) mixed up).

I wrote "[..z] or [iz]". Note Smith's [diS..z]. I don't know whether this is a typo or just an odd one out but I think your accent plays a part too. I never say [iz] for me it's [..z].

bridges-[bridZ..z]
matches-[m@tS..z]
beiges-[beiZ..z] (Is there such a word?)
dishes-[diS..z]
guesses-[ges..z]
buzzes-[b^z..z]
Dulcinea del Toboso   Tuesday, May 11, 2004, 01:47 GMT
Easy way to learn it:

The plural sound is [s] after unvoiced consonantal sounds (those being [f], [k], [p], [t]).

The plural sound is [z] for everything else.
Jim   Tuesday, May 11, 2004, 02:08 GMT
Dulcinea del Toboso,

You've left out the hissers and hushers and your list of voiceless consonants is incomplete.
The affricatives   Tuesday, May 11, 2004, 02:10 GMT
And perhaps you would want to mention the affricatives too. You should put ''etc.'' when your done always.
The affricatives   Tuesday, May 11, 2004, 02:15 GMT
Easy way to learn it:


The plural sound is [s] after unvoiced consonantal sounds (those being [f], [k], [p], [t] )etc.

The plural sound is [iz] for the hissers, hushers and affricatives.

The plural sound is [z] for everything else.
Dulcinea del Toboso   Tuesday, May 11, 2004, 02:27 GMT
What other unvoiced sounds are there besides [f], [k], [p], [t] where the plural s is pronounced [s]?

Hmmm - there is the unvoiced 'th' (as in 'math'). I've probably left out a few then.
Jim   Tuesday, May 11, 2004, 04:46 GMT
Yeah, the main one is [th] as in "fifths". Then there is [K] as in "lochs" but it's not common. In some accents "wh" is pronounced [W] which is a voiceless consonant and [h] is voiceless also but I don't know any word which ends in [h] or [W].
Jim   Tuesday, May 11, 2004, 05:26 GMT
Perhaps the rule could be generalised even further. How about this?

If the sound at the end of the word you're inflecting is too similar to the inflexion you're tacking onto its end, then stick an extra short vowel on the end first. Then voice of the inflexion follows the voice of what comes straight before it.

Now how does that work? Well, when forming a plural the inflexion what you're tacking onto the end is "s". This sounds similar to other hissers hushers and affricatives.

So, if the singular form ends in a [s], [z], [S], [Z], [tS] or [dZ], then stick the short vowel there first. This extra vowel will be an [..] or [i] (depending, I suppose, on your accent) but spelt "e".

Now you put the "s" on and its voice follows whatever came before it. In other words:

b) if the word ends in a voiceless consonant then the "s" will be [s] following the voicelessness of that consonant;

cc) if the word ends in a voiced consonant then the "s" will be [z] following the voicedness of that consonant and

cv&a) if the word ends in a vowel then the "s" will be [z] following the voicedness of that vowel for all vowels are voiced, this includes the extra vowel that you've added to words ending in hissers hushers and affricatives.

Why bother generalising so far? One reason is that the rule now applies to "-ed" endings (as in the past tense and past participle of regular verbs) as well. Here's how the rule goes for them.

a) If the present tense ends in a [t] or [d], then it's [..d] or [id]; otherwise

b) if the present tense ends in a voiceless sound, then it's [t] and

c) if the present tense ends in a voiced sound, then it's [d].
Ryan   Wednesday, May 12, 2004, 04:24 GMT
I would never pronounce "dishes" or "matches" with a /z/ sound at the end of them. Those sounds are made at front of the mouth, so it's more natural to pluralize them by using an /s/ sound.
Jim   Wednesday, May 12, 2004, 06:11 GMT
Ryan,

Do explain what you mean. What do you mean by "Those sounds"?

Do you mean /S/ and /tS/ (the latter really boils down to /S/ anyway)? If so, then what about the vowel that gets inserted? It's not /diSz/ and /m@tSz/ verses /diSs/ and /m@tSs/. They're pronunced /diS..z/ and /m@tS..z/ (or /diSiz/ and /m@tSiz/ in other accents). The letter "e" isn't just there for show: it represents a vowel.

But even if it weren't the case that there exists this vowel what would that have to do with where in the mouth the sound /S/ (including /tS/) is pronounced? The difference between /s/ and /z/ isn't a matter of the shape of your mouth: it's got to do with what your vocal chords are doing. When pronouncing a vowel they're vibrating this vibration carries onto the "s" making it a /z/.