Lojban and the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis?

Ixx   Friday, May 14, 2004, 21:43 GMT
How effective is Lojban in studying the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis? I've been interested in the concept of a truly culture-neutral language for a long time, and this is about as close as it gets.

Esperanto is easy to learn - unless you're not familiar with Latin and German-based sounds and roots! And Volapük is a tragedy all its own....

Because of Esperanto's cultural bias toward Indo-European sounds, it was destined to be eternally ineffective as a means of internationally spoken communication. Don't get me wrong, though! I know Esperanto fluently and find it quite interesting - but it's still ineffective.

Lojban is the closest thing I've seen yet to a culturally neutral language because I don't think the creators used any existing languages as a base. This makes it impossible to really have a "Lojban accent" and makes the words open for different sound interpretations.

Agreements? Disagreements? Anything is welcome - I just want some outside feedback on this idea. Hardly anybody really knows Lojban.
ara   Sunday, May 16, 2004, 09:24 GMT
why do you say it's ineffective? because you can't earn money with it? i'm sure if a country with gas resources adopted esperanto, all you guys would learn it. Unfortunately language is power and power is language.
Dulcinea del Toboso   Sunday, May 23, 2004, 00:37 GMT
I think Ixx said "ineffective" simply because Esperanto would be less appealing to the populations of east Asia than it is to western Europeans.

Gas resources as motivation to learn language? Well, those countries with the resources are almost all Arabic speaking nations. If they adopted Esperanto, I doubt we'd be any more motivated to learn it than we are to learn Arabic. Until the recent unpleasantness, I haven't seen much of a trend in the schools towards learning Arabic.

Volapük needs to be revived! Menad bal, pük bal!
Paul   Sunday, May 23, 2004, 04:42 GMT
Loglan introduced some interesting possibilities in Language use that should have enhanced our ability to think clearly and logically. Unfortunately too few of us learned the language. The number was insufficent to create a speech community.
Given that two heads that communicate are better than one head that has no one to communicate with, we were unable to validate the Sapir-Whorf,
using Loglan.

We did learn the process of developing a fully functional Conlang will definately enhance your intelligence. But it was already well known the fully functional Bilinguals statistically do better on intelligence tests than monlinguals.

And then the Loglan experiment ran into problems when some of the members tried to take control of the Language building process.
They left the project and created an alternate form of Loglan called Lojban.

I'd hesitate to call either Loglan or Lojban to be truly culture-neutral languages, but they are enhanced artifical languages, but with many of the cultural biases of their builders.

I would suggest that a Computer Programing language such as Pascal or C would come much closer to being culturally neutral language.

Regards, Paul V.
Oliver   Monday, May 24, 2004, 17:52 GMT
What is Conlang?
John Doe   Tuesday, May 25, 2004, 23:43 GMT
A Conlang is a constructed language like Esperanto or Fortran or Basic.