About "science"

Emmanuel or Immanuel. Why?   Monday, June 07, 2004, 05:39 GMT
For your information

ignoramus: means "we ignore" in Latin.

In Spanish: Nosotros ignoramos.

But today's English weird meanings bring different reality.

As an adjective I'm agreed with you but you can use it without a noun after.

Ex: The good and the bad are great characters of western movies.
Jim   Monday, June 07, 2004, 05:55 GMT
Emmanuel or Immanuel or Geoffrey or Willy or Chaucer,

You say I don't know better than those who think that Maths is a science. What makes you think that? Do you know who knows more than who?

If you want to know what mathematics is and what science is ask your Aristotles, your Newtons, your Schrödingers, your Lorentzs, your David Humes, your Carl Poppers, your Hempels, your Oppenheims, your Leibenitzs, your Descarteses, your Einsteins, your Maxwells, your Fermis, your Feynmans, your Stephen Hawkings, your Charles Darwins, your Euclids, etc. Forget about asking your Noah Websters and your Samuel Johnsons.

I'm "an" ignorant you say. How is it that you conclude that I'm "an" ignorant.

You write "... it's a dictionary error about meaning usages." I take it that you mean that when the dictionary says that "ignorant" is an adjective and not a noun then the dictionary is wrong. Is that what you're saying?

It seems that you think that the word "ignorant" should be able to be used like a noun. The reason you seem to be giving is that "innocent" is used like a noun. The word "innocent" may be used as a noun but guess what: it's a different word.

The dictionary says "ignorant" is an adjective but you seem to be calling that a dictionary error. So the editors of dictionaries can make mistakes, you're telling us. Might it not be that they made an error with their definition of "mathematics"?

Take it from me, a native speaker of English, that the word "ignorant" is listed only as an adjective in the dictionary is no error. No native speaker would ever use this word as a noun.
Jim   Monday, June 07, 2004, 06:09 GMT
I suggest you refreign from phrases like "For your information" unless it is your intention to be abrasive.

Well, I've learnt something about Latin and Spanish: thanks for that. Now let me explain something to you about English.

You're that you can use "ignorant" without a noun after it. There is no rule of grammar that says that you need a noun after an adjective. Examples like the one you gave are valid.

The good go to Heaven.
The bad go to Hell.
The ignorant had better go to school.

"The ignorant" means all those people who are ignorant. Notice the "the" in front of these words. Those examples are valid but "You are an ignorant.", "You are a bad." and "You are a good." are not valid.
Emmanuel   Monday, June 07, 2004, 06:25 GMT
As in Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, and French you can use "ignorant" as adjective without a noun after it. Is English a silly language? Then native speakers are very misinformed by dummy dictionary.

Christ has long i but Christmas has short i. What? I'm a native speaker of English! Don't you understand? That's what they respond as I do, too.

Ignorant(s) is(are).

Ignorant person
Ignorant Persons(also people).
mjd   Monday, June 07, 2004, 06:34 GMT
Willy/Emmanuel/Geoffrey Chaucer/William Shakespeare etc. etc. is just trying to apply Romance usage of the noun "ignorante" to the English "ignorant".

For example, in Portuguese one could say: "Eles são ignorantes." This means that someone is not very knowledgeable and rather uneducated. However, as Jim pointed out to you, Willy, "ignorant" is not used as a noun in English. Don't take offense. It's no big deal. You're native language is Spanish so it's understandable that it might interfere at times. That is why we're here...to help you learn English.

I may be wasting my breath, but wouldn't it be much more beneficial if you utilized this forum as a tool by which to develop your English skills rather than going on about spelling reforms and insulting other members?
Emmanuel(s) is not a   Monday, June 07, 2004, 06:37 GMT
I use black pawns. I use black ones. I use blacks.

My name is Emmanuel, not my name is an Emmanuel. It's a (proper) noun.

In Spanish the people say: We have eighteen years (of age).

In English the people say: We are eighteen years old (viejos in Spanish).

English is definitely ridiculous.

Perhaps I am the only native speaker of the English that accepts the reality.

Nosotros somos diez y ocho años viejos. It's ridiculous! Are these people old numbers of age? Impressive language, oh yeah!
mjd   Monday, June 07, 2004, 06:40 GMT
"Perhaps I am the only native speaker of the English that accepts the reality."

No, you're a native speaker of Spanish that tries to apply Spanish grammar to English.
Jim   Monday, June 07, 2004, 06:45 GMT
Emmanuel or Immanuel or Geoffrey or Willy or Chaucer,

English may be a silly language but what English is not is Spanish, Italian, Portuguese and French. The rules of Spanish, Italian, Portuguese and French don't necessarily apply to English.

You can use adjectives without a noun after them but that doesn't mean that "You are an ignorant." or "You are a mean." is a valid English sentence.

"Then native speakers are very misinformed by dummy dictionary." you write. It's dictionary writes that must be informed by native speakers.

"I'm a native speaker of English!" you write "Don't you understand?" Yes and no, I perfectly understand the fact that you're lying about being a native speaker as you always have but I don't understand all that you write and there's evidence that you're no native speaker.

You know how to pronounce "Christ" and "Christmas" but you're going to need a lot more than that to convince anyone that you're a native speaker. You can't even pronounce "book" right.
Jim   Monday, June 07, 2004, 06:49 GMT
It's dictionary writers that must be informed by native speakers.
mjd   Monday, June 07, 2004, 06:51 GMT
Actually, my Portuguese example sentence didn't illustrate how it can be used as a noun (what I wrote was ambiguous). A better sentence would be: "Ele é um ignorante." (He is an uneducated person). It also functions as a noun in Spanish; therein lies Willy/Emmanuel/Immanuel/Geoffrey Chaucer/William Shakespeare's confusion.
Immanuel   Monday, June 07, 2004, 06:59 GMT
I never say English is not Spanish, Italian, Portuguese (and) French.

I'd rather say English isn't Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, or French.

Jim, if you speak like this, you use slang instead of standard or formal language.

You see why I visit this forum. Because I want to teach these people to speak English, what I call to speak English.
mjd   Monday, June 07, 2004, 06:59 GMT
Well, there is nothing stupid about any of this, Willy. Have a look at these two dictionary pages. One is from dictionary.com and the other is from the Texto Editora Portuguese Dictionary.


Lacking education or knowledge.
Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
Unaware or uninformed.


do Lat. ignorante

adj. e s. 2 gén.,
indivíduo que ignora;

que não tem ilustração;


que não possui a habilidade, o saber que a sua profissão exige.

Notice how the English dictionary lists it only as an adjective while the Portuguese dictionary lists "adj" (adjective) and "s. 2 gén." or "substantivo de dois géneros" (noun spelled the same for both genders).

Case closed.
Emmanuel   Monday, June 07, 2004, 07:09 GMT
What I have learned of Spanish, "ignorant" is simply an adjective but Spanish use it without a noun after an adjective.

The blue car. The blue (one).
El carro azul. El azul.
Jim   Monday, June 07, 2004, 07:09 GMT
Yeah, it was a mistake. It should have been "English is not Spanish, Italian, Portuguese or French." I forgot to change the "and to an "or".

I don't mind why you come to this forum but if I were you I'd try doing a bit more learning and a bit less "teaching".

To back dictionary.com up:

ignorant [Show phonetics]
1 not having enough knowledge, understanding or information about something:
Many teenagers are surprisingly ignorant about current politics.
We remained blissfully ignorant of the troubles that lay ahead.

2 UK INFORMAL not polite or respectful:
Ignorant lout!

ignorance [Show phonetics]
noun [U]
lack of knowledge, understanding or information about something:
Public ignorance about the disease is still a cause for concern.
Patients, it is claimed, were kept/left in ignorance of what was wrong with them.

(from Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)

Emmanuel   Monday, June 07, 2004, 07:15 GMT
You're a guesser. I have that dictionary but about some words I am disagreed. Creatures in creation is not written in that book. Thus, I consider that dictionary as a headache disease.