Is there something like Syllable Dictionary?

Jim   Friday, June 18, 2004, 07:52 GMT
Or ...

All initial clusters fit one of these patterns:

1st consonant: /s/ or nothing
2nd consonant: unvoiced stop or nothing
3rd consonant: /w/ or liquid or nothing

1st consonant: /s/
2nd consonant: /f/, /n/, /m/

1st consonant: /S/
2nd consonant: /n/, /m/, /w/, liquid

1st consonant: fricative,
2nd consonant: liquid

/ts/, affricative, /thw/, /j/, /W/

Where /j/ is after a consonant it's considered part of the vowel.

Note: "thwart" another unusual cluster.

I think that covers it ... maybe.
Jim   Friday, June 18, 2004, 07:53 GMT
Also, I'm considering /stS/ to be the same as /stj/.
Jim   Friday, June 18, 2004, 07:57 GMT
No that isn't right: there are a bunch of things missing ... I'll fix it up next time.
English Syllables   Saturday, June 19, 2004, 04:04 GMT
I just looked in the dictionary http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=Svalbard and http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=Svalbard and it listed the pronunciation [sva:lba:r] for ''Svalbard''. Of course, it may not be the correct Norwegian pronunciation it's listing.

There's also http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=hrolf ''hrolf'' beginning with a [hr]. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Rollo .

What about ''vr'' in ''vroom''?
English Syllables   Sunday, June 20, 2004, 22:19 GMT
Also, there also a cluster [Ng] that exists in some dialects that pronounce ''thing'' as [THiNg] and also pronounce ''singer'' to rhyme with ''finger'' where for most of us they don't rhyme.
Jim   Monday, June 21, 2004, 00:08 GMT
... but in those accents [Ng] and [ng] are allophones.
English Syllables   Monday, June 21, 2004, 01:33 GMT
Yeah, but that doesn't make [Ng] not a cluster. For, most of us the cluster [Ng] does not occur. ''finger'' is pronounce [fiNg..{r}] but it's [fiN-g..{r}] [N] ends the first syllable, so it's not a cluster.

Anyway, did you include [hr] in ''hrolf'' and [vr] in ''vroom'' with the list of clusters?

Also, would you call [hw] and [hj] phonemes. Answer my question about [hw] and [hj] on this thread http://p081.ezboard.com/feuropa2frm40.showMessage?topicID=45.topicalong with some more questions I have on this link-thread about phonemes. I'm wondering how many phonemes people have in their different accents and which phonemes those are, Answer on this thread http://p081.ezboard.com/feuropa2frm40.showMessage?topicID=45.topic
English Syllables   Monday, June 21, 2004, 01:36 GMT
I messed up on that a little bit. Well, click on the bottom link to get to the phoneme thread.
.....................................   Monday, June 21, 2004, 02:17 GMT
.............................................
Jim   Monday, June 21, 2004, 02:20 GMT
True, [Ng] is still a cluster in those accents but /Ng/ is phonemically equivalent to /ng/ so you coundn't count both [ng] and [Ng]. For the rest of us this is just /N/.

I had included /hr/ and /vr/ in my sorting the initial clusters out into patterns, this was more by accident than on purpose though. When I was counting the intial clusters I didn't count them though because I hadn't thought of any words that began with them but the result of this count gave in sufficiently vague terms as to leave plenty of room for them.

/hw/ and /hj/ are not phonemes in my accent, however, I'd say that there are accents where /hw/ is a phoneme and accents where /hj/ is one too ... maybe but I'm begining to have my doubts about that.

It seems that there are 40 to 50 phonemes in English. I'd say that I have about 44 including /tS/ and /dZ/ but excluding rare and foreign sounds like the "ch" in "loch" and the "r" in "karate". Have a look at my list:

http://www.antimoon.com/forum/2004/4794-2.htm
English Syllables   Monday, June 21, 2004, 02:31 GMT
Jim, Is my first link messed up on your computer? If so, try my second.
English Syllables.   Monday, June 21, 2004, 02:34 GMT
Jim, Here's what I was talking about on that forum if your links were messed up. Anyway, there are some questions below.

A lot of people ask this common question and there's a lot of different answers. It depends on your accent.

Consonants

[b]-bag
[tS]-chip
[d]-dog
[f]-frog
[g]-get
[h]-heat
[j]-yes
[dZ]-jump
[k]-cat
[l]-light
[m]-might
[n]-night
[o]-open
[p]-party
[r]-red, car
[s]-snake, bass
[S]-sharp, fish
[t]-toast, tiger
[th]-think, thin
[TH]-there, that
[v]-van, verb
[w]-weed, why
[z]-zoo
[Z]-beige, vision

Vowels

[@]-cat, calf, half, ant, aunt, bag
[e]-set, get, ten, fence
[i]-sit
[a:]-hot, caught, father
[^]-cup
[u]-put
[..]-arrest, soda
[ei]-say
[ai]-sigh
[i:] seed, greet, leak
[u:] food, grew, new, shoe, suit
[ju:] mute, beautiful
[a:] hot, father, caught
[i:] seed, greet, leak
[u:] food, grew, new, shoe, suit
[i{:}] happy, money, body, monkey
[Ou]-so
[oi]-coin
[au]-mount
[o:]-saw
[e:(r)]-burglar, dirt, hurt
[e..]-yeah
[i..]-idea
[u..(r)]-cure, pure, tour
[o]-pot, hot, stomp
[.] ''syllabic consonants'' [.l] and [.n]. ''bitten'', ''little''.

Phonemes that don't exist in most dialects but exist in some.

[W]-whale, what, when- ''used by those who distinguish ''whine/wine''
[A]-made, daze, pane, mane, ate= ''A monophthong used by some Northern Irish people that distinguish these words from ''maid'', ''days'', ''pain'', ''main'' and ''eight''.
[O]-toe, sole, nose, groan=A ''A monophthong used by people from Liverpool people that distinguish these words from ''tow'', ''soul'', ''knows'' and ''grown''.
[E]-tenner ''used by some Northern Irish people that distinguish this word from ''tenor'' by using a longer vowel.''
[C]-human, huge, humorous ''a voiceless ''y'' as opposed to [hj].
[J]-canyon, lasagna, piñata ''Palatal nasal sound'' used by some people, distinguished by some people from the ''ni'' in ''opinion'', ''companion'' and ''onion'' [nj].
[@:]-mad, sad, bad ''used by some Southern Englishmen that don't rhyme these words with ''lad'' and ''pad''.
[I]-libel ''A diphthong used by some Scots that don't rhyme this word with bible.
[ŭ]-book ''A vowel used by some Scots that use a different vowel in ''book'' than in ''foot''.
[ö]-lose ''A vowel used by some Scots that use a different vowel in ''lose'' than the vowel in ''moos'' and ''loose''. [ö]'s IPA symbol is [o].
[ü]-loose ''A vowel used by some Scots that use a different vowel in ''loose'' than in ''lose''.

More information on those three vowels [ŭ], [ö], [ü].
http://www.uni-mainz.de/FB/Philologie-II/fb1413/roesel/seminar0203/regional_varieties/Scotland.htm


Other phonemes that some people may use but most people don't.

[K]-loch
[n:]-contretemps ''nasal vowels''
[L]-Llwyd ''Welsh voiceless ''l''
[y]-rue [IPA symbol]
[ø]-foehn [IPA symbol]
[Y]-guidwillie [IPA symbol]
[a]-a la ''pronounced [a-la]''
[j:]-digne [''indicates that during the articulation of the preceding consonant the tongue has substantially the position it has for the articulation of the \y\ of yard, as in digne [dEnj:] Thus [j:] does not itself represent a sound but rather modifies the preceding symbol.]
[R]-rue, rouge ''voiced uvular fricative''
[r:]-perro ''tapped ''r'' - the ''alveolar flap''.

Question,

Which of these phonemes do you use and which of them do you not use?

Some other questions,

Which of these phonemes do you think should be included in a spelling reform and which of them should be ignored? Do you think that a good spelling reform system should include all of these phonemes?

Another question,

If the alphabet were extended to include a letter for every sound in the English language should letters for all of these phonemes be included?

Another question,

Is [hw] ''which is not used by most of us'' a phoneme and is [hj] ''which is used by most of us'' a phoneme?''
Police Officer   Monday, June 21, 2004, 02:59 GMT
There's also this phoneme,

[U]-''loumie'', ''soup'', ''coup'', ''group'', ''through'', ''coupon''. [Distinguished by some Scots by the vowel sound in ''roomy'', ''coo'', ''hoop'' and ''threw''.]
Man   Monday, June 21, 2004, 03:01 GMT
Jim and English Syllables, what's this [ŭ] that is on English Syllables' list. What the heck kind of a symbol is that. Who ever thought of such a symbol as that?
Police Officer   Monday, June 21, 2004, 03:05 GMT
Jim and English Syllables, You are both under arrest.