<<If you "use" the word dialect for languedocien you do the same as the french who say occitan is a lesser french dialect. Languedocien is a language not a dialect, use the right words please.>>
I use the word "dialect" for languedocien because that is what it IS. It's a dialect of the occitan LANGUAGE.
<<You said french french was the lost evoluted language between latin ones, roman ones, i said you forgot roumanian which has been influenced by slavonic cultures. >>
Again you put words into my mouth. I was not the one who said that french is the most evoluted of the latin or romance languages. It was Jordi who said,
"All Romance language linguists will confirm than French has evolved more than the rest."
<<The problem is, french do not joke about french and its latinism!>>
Okay, now I understand..sacre bleu!
<<Viva Occitaña!>>
Viure al País!
We better say "visca Occitània". I'm glad to see there are some persons interested in occitan.
Ajudatz-nos a salvar la lenga nòstra!
A couple of things, sometimes meaning three or more. Not only did I say that French was the most evolved and aberrant form of Latin in the continuum (a nice Latin word meaning all the forms of Latin which are spoken from Sicily to Portugal) but I also mentionned Roumanian in my messages and the fact that it was amongst Slavonian languages. What I did forget was Sardinian so I say it now, a very conservative indeed form of Latin and a language which also suffers the assault of Italian. Both Roumanian and Sardinian have more excentric evolutions. And, of course, I should have mentionned Rheto-Romanic, the dialects of Latin spoken in a part of Switzerland.
Why should our friend "Alex el Trobador de Nemausus", write Occitaña! The fact is something tells me he knows more Spanish than Occitan: "el" instead of "lo" and a "ñ", which only exists in Spanish amongst all the languages of the world. In Occitan it should be "nh" and in Catalan it's "ny" but the fact is that "Occitania" the "nia" means two syllables and not only one . In Occitan it is prounced Oot-see-taa-nee-o" following approximative English spelling. If he's French he has certainly studied Spanish at school and not Occitan, although he claims to be Occitan or, rather, French.
By the way, all linguists in the world agree that Catalan is a distinct Romance language and, therefore, not a dialect of Occitan although the Literary forms are close enough to be mutually understood in the written form al least (on the whole) by educated speakers.
All Standard Languages are made up of a composition of dialects although there is always one that serves as a basic form. Languedoc is therefore a dialect of Occitan. That doens't mean that writers cannot use localisms. I speak and write fluent Catalan (my native tongue) and Occitan, which I learnt at the "Universitat Occitana d'Estiu" and elsewhere. Modern Standard Occitan is based on "Lengadocian" simply because it is the form that has remained closer to Medieval Occitan and is, therefore, also closest to Modern Standard Catalan. But since Occitan is a compositional language one can also write in Provençal, Gascon, or the North Occitan varieties without betraying the unity of the language.
All Romance languages can be considered dialects of Latin since Latin didn't die out and it just evolved.
Ariel, instead of "Sacré Bleu" (it it Roquefort?) I would say Macarèl! :-)
Visca Occitania! Visca els Països Catalans!
Vicent, Dirai aquò en occitan. La lenga occitana la salvaran los joves occitans si la parlan a l'hostau, als amics e als infants e demandan a l'estat los seus drechs. Aquesta és la salvacion d'una lenga. Podem pas plorar e no faire res. No tots los joves occitanistas fan acò i es una vergonha. Es pas facil a França de luchar contra aquesta maquinaria uniformisadora e jacobina malgrat que avem de mantenir totjorn la dignitat del terraire. Sort e constancia!
Ariela,
That’s ok, but do not forget French don’t laugh about their Latinism, as many north European thought latins are not inferior. French can joke about many things but not about it. You could cause a war with things like that. But I can see you understood it was important, and I appreciate it.
There’s no dialect, it’s all languages, is Corsican a dialect? Go and say it to a Corsican and you will encounter some problems.
The link you indicated ABOUT THE GEOGRAPHICAL POSITION OF Occitan in southern Europe seem strange with Spain, the area seems very small and I thought it was bigger
Vincent, I admit I have problems with Occitan, my parents, grand parents speak it, I understand a few words but not all, that’s a shame and I must do something to learn it better. My family is from Lozère and Gard, my mother does not really speak the same as my father.
That's true i make some confusions between spanish and occitan, the thing is : my parents say "café con lei" and spanish say "café con leche" (sorry if mystake).
The other thing is Nîmes share common things with Spain, corridas, Ferias, bodegas....
Vincent,
How do you put the accent on the "ò", can you do it with a french one, AZERTY?
Jordi
Do you know why with a french keyboard we can put the spanish accent, symbol on the "ñ"
Alex:
The normal thing in Occitan is "amb" "ambe" o even "embe". No "con" in Occitan, as far as I know, to say "with". Maybe you speak more Spanish than Occitan. Or, maybe, your parents speak a very strange Occitan dialect, which hasn't been reported yet. I have no idea whatsoever why you have "ñ" on your keyboard. The fact is we have the ^ accent and it doesn't exist in Catalan or Spanish. Maybe I could ask you the same question. I know Nîmes and its region quite well.
My parents and parents (originally from Lozère and the guard area (Nîmes is in the Guard) say café con lei. If you know Nîmes, you noticed it's close to spanish culture. As i said : ferias, corridas... Maybe the language they speak is close to spanish? But they call it occitan. My father told me when he has been the 1st time in Spain when he was young, he was able to underdstand many words without any problems. He has spoken to spanish with his "occitan" and was understandable, not all the time of course but there weren't so many difficulties to communicate, i know words like vaca, padel...
I think the occitan we are talking about is the "accademic" one and there are different ones.
ooops, Gard and not Guard!
To the French people,
Where is my cousin tongue (Breton Gaelic) spoken in France? Is Breton as much alive as Occitan? It apparently is close to Welsh and Cornish.... but because it is a celtic language, I am interested in the facts about it's status. Is Breton even recognized as a minority language in France? It is Frances only non-latin, but celtic based language which might be sitting worse off than Gaelic or Manx. I am interested in how latin has evolved into so many languages, French is truely the most evolved and rather beautiful. Italian, Spanish and Portugese have their own natural beauties to them, yet the pronounciation and richness of French cannot compare to that of the other Latin off-shoots. Romanche of Switzerland though is the only language I have never heard spoken or seen written. I wish to know more about what it is like, yet unfortunately there are very few speakers of Romanche in comparison to Italian, German and French in Switzerland. Yet, back to my original topic, what is the status of Breton and is there a demand or a form of a movement to help keep it living in Brettony?
I realise your posting was directed at Ceaser but I found that information on the Breton language fascinating.....plenty of reading. Thank you.
Caesar,
64% german
19,5% french
6,6% italian
less than 0,5% romanche
In France, most of languages were latin and divided in 2 families : langue d'oïl (French Kings like angevins) and langue d'oc (centre and south : from Auvergne to Provence) + Alsacian who spoke a germanic language + Breton (divided in 2 languages) + basque + corsican.
I have been in Brittany and it still to be the same for occitan, there aren't a lot of people who speak it, but i do not have anything to see with bretons and i know very baddly their culture.
The most spoken languages apart french are i think basque and alsacian, corsican is less spoken. I had a friend in Alsace, when i came to see him, i was amazed to see he spoke to his parents in something like german. I am not abble to understand occitan correctly and my corsican friends do not understand corsican.
During the 2nd world war for the STO, obligation for every french man to work in Germany : only bretons and alsacians were not forced to do it because germans did not consider them as french for their non latin origins.
The percentages are of course about Swiss