Tuesday, June 22, 2004, 09:38 GMT
He never considered himself...
What is the official language of the European Union?
Tuesday, June 22, 2004, 09:38 GMT
He never considered himself...
Tuesday, June 22, 2004, 10:01 GMT
if you are interested in :
Napoleone, nato ad Ajaccio nel 1769, apparteneva ad una famiglia nobile corsa.era stato spinto da suo padre Carlo Maria ,un avvocato che aveva studiato legge a Pisa,a fare carriera militare.Si guadagno'il grado di generale nell'assedio diTolone (ottobre 1793);con quell'assedio si mise in luce. Convertitosi alle idee giacobine e legatosi al gruppo di Robespierre, cadde in disgrazia dopo il Termidoro. Arrestato e radiato dall'esercito (aprile 1795), pote' riprendere la carriera grazie alla protezione di Barras. Il matrimonio (marzo 1796) con l'influente Giuseppina di Beauharnais gli consenti' di ottenere il comando dell'armata d'Italia con il compito di impegnare le forze austro-piemontesi, alleggerendo in tal modo il fronte tedesco.
CARLO MARIA BUONAPARTE AVVOCATO was born in 1746 in TOSCANO. He died in 1785. He married MARIA LETIZIA RAMOLINO.
MARIA LETIZIA RAMOLINO was born in 1750. She died in 1836. She married CARLO MARIA BUONAPARTE AVVOCATO.
They had the following children:
M i GIUSEPPE BONAPARTE RE NAPOLI E SPAG was born in 1768. He died in 1844.
M ii NAPOLEONE I BONAPARTE IMPERATORE F was born on 15 Aug 1769. He died on 5 May 1821.
M iii LUCIANO BONAPARTE PRINC.CANINO was born in 1775. He died in 1840.
F iv MARIA ANNA ELISA BONAPARTE GRAND.TOSCANA was born in 1777. She died in 1820.
M v LUIGI BONAPARTE RE OLANDA was born in 1778. He died in 1846.
F vi PAOLINA BONAPARTE was born in 1780. She died in 1825.
F vii CAROLINA BONAPARTE was born in 1782. She died in 1839.
M viii GIROLAMO BONAPARTE RE WESTFALIA was born in 1784. He died in 1860.
Tuesday, June 22, 2004, 10:05 GMT
Charlemagne was not french and was a french king.
I think you know Garibaldi, he was french, born in Nice. I admit Nice had a special statute.
French do not especially like Napoleon, he is important in french history like Cromwell is for Ireland and England, like some spanish navigators who massacred indians in America (They were not the only one of course, french, english, portuguese....).
Tuesday, June 22, 2004, 10:09 GMT
I am half Italian too (my mother is from Sicily) and I have the same feelings as Nic about our second country.
I don't think most French are now afraid about a strong Germany. In the new generation there is a strong tie between Germany and France, and we know that if we want to prevail on the international stage we have to build a strong partnership. In fact I have -sometimes- the feeling that the relationship between Germany and France is by far more important than the EU to my fellow citizen... well I am probably not really subjective as a lot of my friends have family in Germany. You know it is incredible to believe how that relationship has evolved these fifty last years...
What about Napoleon? You're right, a lot of French love him because he was "la grandeur française"... horrible, don't you think? But all our countries had (and have) leaders who brought (and are bringing) death all over the world, as you wrote, and the blindness from our "patriotism" makes some us proud of them (I am not talking only about France).
Huh? Aren't we here to talk about the European languages mates?
Tuesday, June 22, 2004, 10:46 GMT
In fact French is the 10th language in the World... after:
1: Guoyu (1000)
2: English (520)
3: Hindi and Urdu (500)
4: Spanish (400)
5: Russian (280)
6: Arab (250)
7: Bengali (200)
8: Portuguese (190)
9: "Malais-Indonésien" (175)
10: French (130)
11: Japan (125)
12: German (120)
Did you know that we believe there are 7000 different languages in the world... (and only 15 languages are spoken by more than 50 million people) Unfortunately, most of them are dying and some believes that 90% of them will be dead in fifty years.
Tuesday, June 22, 2004, 11:47 GMT
One is not a citizen of existing countries but of the countries that existed when one was alive. What would Garibaldi have said if you had told him he was French, he who is the father of modern Italy and probably never spoke a word of French? As you know, "niçart" is an Occitan dialect with a slight Italian influence. Nice wasn't French until the 1860s and Garibaldi was born before that. Napoleon was Italian but Garibaldi was French? I don't understand. Garibaldi belongs to the history of Italy the same way Napoleon belongs to French history. Go and have a look at the Arc de Triomphe in the Champs Elysées with all the battles and horrors Napoleon won throughout Europe. What do you think the Spaniards, Italians or Egyptians feel when they visit the place? Obviously, since it is called "triumph" you won't find campaings such as the "defeat" in Russia. Personally, when I see all those battles near my place I can't remain silent because they are my dead.
Your Italian text speaks for itself: Convertitosi alle idee giacobine e legatosi al gruppo di Robespierre. (He converted to Jacobinism (French centralism) and he joined Robespierre's group.... I'm glad the younger generation feels a strong Europe is necessary and that we can all be happy living and respecting each other. Europe deserves that. And Axel is right that all countries have brought monsters to the world. Just imagine bloody General Franco in Spain. The difference is that Spanish democracy has made all references to Franco disappear except for the books of history. "Lest we forget."
Tuesday, June 22, 2004, 11:51 GMT
Carlemagne's Empire (in Catalan) included Catalonia (known in Latin as the Marca Hispanica). He was obviously not a French emperor since France didn't exist then. Modern France, like modern Catalonia and other Germanic areas formed part of Carlemagne's Western Roman Empire, which he revived for a while. I suppose we'll have to write European books of history now that we are all Europeans. By the way he spoke a Germanic dialect and Latin. No French at all.
Tuesday, June 22, 2004, 11:59 GMT
The message that starts "One is not a citizen" is mine. I apologise for putting Nic's name on the top. My error.
Tuesday, June 22, 2004, 12:25 GMT
So, you native English speakers tend to think English is a cold, boring language?
Of course, if you take one of those numerous crabbed economic or business text, it is! That can even put me off English, me who's been loving it since I was a child!
But what about litterature? When I'm reading a novel in English, those are the times when words strike me the most, somehow. English is such a wealthy language and has a unique way to express things to the extent that it is probably the hardest language to translate (at least into another one which doesn't belong to the same linguistic group).
Yes, it is romantic. I'd never dream of watching Lord of the rings in a dubbed version, without those wonderful celtic accents! And in any other movie, whether it's an American, an Australian, an English one or anything, a stream of consciousness is very touching to me.
Don't ask me why. "The reasons of the heart are warm and messy and, well, unreasonable" as Terry Pratchett once said.........
Tuesday, June 22, 2004, 12:48 GMT
Héritier du royaume de Pépin le Bref, il est roi des "Francs" de 768 à 814 puis, empereur d'Occident de 800 à 814.
The "francs" (germanic population), that's were come from the word "français". That's because of Chalemagne if the Carolingiens dynasty was a french king dinasty.
For Garibaldi, I said about Nice i admit bla bla. But Nice was a proprierty of Burgondy since a long time. The same for Savoie which has been shared by french and italians and Swiss but had her own culture itself. Anyway let's forget it.
As you noticed, Bonaparte was from a very old italian family, even if you have leaved in Australia and maybe have the australian passport, you seem to consider yourslef as catalan at 1st, of course i respect it. Bonaparte only used french army to be master of Europe. At list if you are intersted about him, you will discover his dream was being at 1st the unification of France and Italy. Not really possible, that's why he has drown himself the italian flag and has impose some rules like the romans did with galish in Antiquities.
Tuesday, June 22, 2004, 12:58 GMT
France is 1500 years old, why? Because we use to celebrate the Clovis conversion to catholicism. So as you can see it, France existed.
Tuesday, June 22, 2004, 14:15 GMT
Actually, I was born in France of Catalan parents and I was brought up in Australia and have now been living in Catalonia for many years. I've always held a Spanish passaport and have never been French, nor Australian and consider myseld very much Catalan. I'm the result of culture and choice like everybody else and I consider myself very much cosmopolitan. But that isn't the case. The only thing I'm saying that France hasn't always been as it is and that it hasn't always had an Hexagonal shape. It isn't hard to understand except if you've been brought up in France. Read the mediaeval poems in Occitan when Toulouse (Toloza) is invaded "by the French" according to those same poems. And I don't doubt that France has all the right to go back to Carlemagne but he was crowned in Aachen (Germany) and his kingdom reached distant lands, which are not a part of Europe. And he spoke Frankish, a Germanic dialect. All the lands that were ruled by him have the same right to consider Carlemagne a king of their history without considering themselves a part of a French empire that never existed in the 8th century, but of the Western Roman Empire that Carlemagne relived shortly. According to you France is 1500 years. It's as if I said modern Spain came from Roman Hispania (that's where the word comes from) but that would include the Portuguese and history is quite complex. History isn't as easy as National/Nationalistic history books put it. After all, the poor natives in far away Pacific islands where taught by the French the first sentence of all French history books: "Nos ancêtres les gaulois" and we all know how simple history can become when it is at the service of a nation's will.
Tuesday, June 22, 2004, 14:17 GMT
which are not a part of France (not Europe) and other typos I won't bother.
Tuesday, June 22, 2004, 15:15 GMT
In fact we do not really know when we can say that France was created: was it in 496 with Clovis, in 987 with Hugues Capet or in 1789 with the revolution??? That is a great question between historians... it is funny because in 1996, we have celebrated the 1500 years of France, in 1987 that was the 1000 years and in 1989 we have celebrated the 200 years of the revolution.
Tuesday, June 22, 2004, 21:40 GMT
"In comparison (to romance languages) English is so cold, clinical and meant for business only. Does anyone else agree?"
"English just seems to grab words from everywhere and there seems to be no internal rhythm to it...To me, English is very boring. If it were not my native language, I wonder if I would bother to learn it?"
Personally, I don't see how anyone can say that English is cold and boring. Just read the works of John Donne, Charles Dickens, James Joyce, Virginia Woolf, Edgar Allen Poe, Emily Dickinson, Henry James, Sylvia Plath, Walt Whitman, Tennessee Williams, Raymond Chandler, Maya Angelou, etc., etc. and see how wonderfully expressive, emotive, evocative, passionate, sensual, and yes, rhythmic the English language can be when left in the hands of talented and highly imaginative people.