Matter and Madder.

Damian   Monday, July 19, 2004, 13:55 GMT

No, it's not really a matter of pressing another key...they do it in handwriting as well....I have noticed it with the American students at university.....Uni students actually writing that way! I wondered what their essays look like to be honest. As just one example an American guy wrote to the Secretary of the Leeds SU (Students Union) a note more or less exactly as follows:

"sorry i wont be at the meeting saturday im going to london for the weekend"

You don't have the hassle of pressing an extra key when handwriting do you? LOL

Maybe some Americans like writing informally when they think it's convenient. I asked out of interest, nothing more.

I saw his note as I was helping in the organisation of an anti Tony Blair tuition fees demonstration!

Yes, I forgot the initial capital letter as well...sorry.
Jeff   Monday, July 19, 2004, 15:47 GMT
Dulcinea del Toboso
Wednesday, July 14, 2004, 18:57 GMT
"madder" and "matter" sound different to me. As Elaine says, "madder" has a hard "d" sound and "matter" has a light tapped "d" sound.

Wednesday, July 14, 2004, 20:01 GMT
Dulcinea is right on the nose with his explanation of the hard "d" sound and the light tapped "d" sound. In addition, the "a" sound is different in the two words (definitely in my accent).

Now, you agree with me or with'em?
mjd   Monday, July 19, 2004, 16:24 GMT
What I was saying, Jeff, was that I believe there is a very slight distinction between the "dd" and the "tt." While it's very slight, I believe the "tt" is slightly less "hard" (if you will) than the "dd," although this difference may at times be imperceptible.

As for the whole "madder" and "day" issue....I agree with you. "Day'"s 'd' is harder. All I was trying to say is that "madder" and "matter" are not pronounced the same...the biggest difference being the sound of the 'a.'

You said: "Whenever you have t, tt, d, or dd between vowel and after an stressed syllable you make the tapped t sound. Like in latter, ladder, matter, madder."

"Ladder" and "latter" can end up sounding almost identical, although I think the "dd" is slightly harder (this largely depends on the degree of formality and speed). "Madder" and "matter" definitely sound very I said, the sound of the 'a.'

If you're from New York City, you should agree with me on the issue of the 'a.'
Random Chappie   Monday, July 19, 2004, 18:44 GMT
Hello, Damian,

I've got a question for you...
If Labour's tuitions and top-up fees are to be abolished, how are universities to receive sufficient funds that would enable them to provide a good education?

I think Labour's deal is fair enough. Most public universities in the United States charge a minimum of $9000 (excluding boarding) or £5000 per year for a course leading up to a bachelor's degree. Private universities charge even more (approx. $25 000 - 35 000 or £14 000 - 19 000 for undergraduates).

The problem of student debt would be eliminated if only the majority of parents were a little more generous. Personally, I am planning on funding 80-100% of my children's higher the distant future, of course.

(By the way, I typed an e-mail to the Conservative Party yesterday asking them the same question about tuition. They replied with the following: "We will announce our policies in this area in the near future." plans yet, eh?)

Sorry, this was completely off-topic. No harm done, I least I'm not beginning a whole new thread on uni tuition.
Damian   Tuesday, July 20, 2004, 20:26 GMT
It is off topic really but I have to respond to you so as not to be considered rude: Hopefully Labour's planned policies will not affect me personally as all being well my uni career is over. Nonetheless, I leave with debts in the region of £14k which I will repay to the really lovely Tony.....or, he hopes I will. I am not obliged to pay a penny until... or if...I get a job paying £15k or over. That is, as things stand now.

As for the Conservatives...who the heck are they? Never heard of them.... ;-(
Random Chappie   Tuesday, July 20, 2004, 21:26 GMT
Thank you very much, Damian, for your response.

Erm...The Conservatives are a "Sassenach" party, as you would call them (though I think they've got a small offshoot in Scotland too). If you had followed the proceedings of the UK Parliament a bit more closely, you would know that they are the second largest party by representation in the Parliament of the entire union. Or were you only joking when you said you had never heard of them?

Pity, pity...poor Damian has got stingy parents. (Only taking the mickey, though that IS true.)

So, to bring my post back to topic, I hereby proclaim to everyone that I pronounce "matter" and "madder" differently.
Justin   Wednesday, July 21, 2004, 01:34 GMT
"Matter" and "madder" sound the same to me. The A's in the two words both have the [æ] sound in my speech. But I'm just a learner of American English, so I don't know if I speak correctly.
Ryan   Wednesday, July 21, 2004, 05:46 GMT
The a's sound the same when I say them but I definitely tap my tongue around the top of my mouth when pronouncing the "tt" in "matter."
Damian   Wednesday, July 21, 2004, 06:31 GMT

I was using is my wont....of course I have heard of in Scotland the Conservatives are called Tories (the very word Tory has negative connotations up here as the "party of England"..the great landowner types etc....) After the 1997 General Election they had NO MP's in Scotland at all, and neither did they in Wales for the same reasons! In the 2001 General Election they gained one seat down in Galloway (SW Scotland) but with a wee, wee, tiny wee majority! See...I do follow Parliamentary affairs sometimes when I've nothing better do do....

You're right..this is digression! I should be banned by rights! Cheerio!
Damian   Wednesday, July 21, 2004, 06:35 GMT


Btw...... I only have a mother (Dad died when I was 7 in an accident) and a wicked stepfather who has recently strayed from the fold....

Sorry..digression again. JUst putting record straight
Jordi   Wednesday, July 21, 2004, 11:39 GMT
Damian said:
>>and a wicked stepfather who has recently strayed from the fold....

He sounds fascinating. I'm your side and I hope your mother doesn't suffer too much.