''corps'' and ''core''.

Al Gore   Thursday, August 12, 2004, 21:44 GMT
Ailian, Which of the words are you talking about when you say [vowel and length difference].

For me, ''core'' and ''corps'' are pronounced the same like ''kor''. and ''poor'' and ''pour'' are pronounced the same.

What about these words,

''shore'' and ''sure''

''more'' and ''moor'', ''moore''

''for'' and ''four''
Ailian   Thursday, August 12, 2004, 22:33 GMT
There is a difference in both the vowel that I say for "corps" and "core" as well as the length in which in pronounce those vowels ("corps" takes a longer time to say).
Random Chappie   Friday, August 13, 2004, 01:32 GMT
"shore" and "sure" - Same.
"more" and "moor" - Different, "moor"= "moo-er", or sometimes even "mer" in rapid speech.
"for" and "four" - Same, except in rapid speech, in which "for" becomes "fer".

(My speech is non-rhotic, i.e. I don't curl my tongue for the "r" at the end of a syllable.)
Mi5 Mick   Friday, August 13, 2004, 06:10 GMT
Even though I pronounce "tore" and "tour" differently, the 'tour' in "tournament" isn't pronounced "tour" but "tore". ie. "torenament".

pat   Friday, August 13, 2004, 11:01 GMT
I dont know if this is supposed to be correct or incorrect, but I generally say "poor person" or "poor people" differently than "the decision reflected poorly on the company" With the last example, its more like an oooo, just like the so called french sound that somone else pointed out a few posts ago.
Guy   Friday, August 13, 2004, 15:39 GMT
the first two... yes.
the last two... no, tour and poor rhyme for me and so do tore and pour.

I thougt the French r was very different from the English r... how can u compare these two?
Random Chappie   Friday, August 13, 2004, 18:39 GMT
To Guy:

The people in Normandy (and Edith Piaf too, from a recording I heard some time ago) pronounce their r's a bit like the Russians and Spanish do. I forgot whether it's called a tapped r, a rolled r, or a trilled r. Well, that happens to be exactly the way I pronounce the r's in certain words: "America", "barrister", "RAF", and "Edinburgh" for example.

And the surprising thing is that I really am English.
Random Chappie   Friday, August 13, 2004, 18:50 GMT
I've been searching the web for an accurate description of the "r" described in my above post. Here it is...

"A single flap of the tongue against the roof of the mouth."

So that's how I pronounce the "r" in "America", "barrister", "RAF", and "Edinburgh".
Damian   Friday, August 13, 2004, 20:01 GMT
I thougt the French r was very different from the English r... how can u compare these two? >>


I was comparing the vowel rather than the "r" in the French word "pur" when I pronounced "poor" in my Lallans (Lowland) Scots accent. You are correct when you say the French and Scottish "Rs" are different..one is trilled and the other rolled.

I'm awa noo to hae a wee dram. Guid nicht.
Random Chappie   Saturday, August 14, 2004, 22:25 GMT
What exactly is the difference between a trilled "r" and a rolled "r"? What would you call the way I pronounce the "r" in "America", "RAF", and "Edinburgh" (see my post above)?
Ailian   Sunday, August 15, 2004, 22:48 GMT
There really isn't any difference between a trilled "r" and a rolled "r", assuming that the person is talking about the alveolar trilled/rolled "r". (There is also an alveolar flap/tap "r", which is the "r" of Japanese and Spanish as well as being found in various English accents as "t" or "d". This also sounds similar to the "r" that you [Random Chappie] describe using.)

The French "r" is usually an uvular "r", which is sometimes rolled (trilled) as well. In parts of Quebec and Louisiana, the alveolar flap/tap "r" is sometimes used.

I really wish that I could use IPA on here. :( http://www2.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/fullchart.html