Great Britain Not Serious About Spanish

nic   Thursday, September 09, 2004, 11:41 GMT

Some coloured people complain about that. One of them who's a comic on Tv and who's black think there should be a "quota" like in US. Not everyoen share the same idea. But i think that's true there's not a lot of coloured people representated on TV. Especially with algerians and other north african people. They are a big % of french population actually. I think it's true there is a real racism about these people. They encounter difficulties to find a job, a flat...
nic   Thursday, September 09, 2004, 11:45 GMT

I agree you when you say we don't refer to people about their colour. I have hear in France speaking about a black french or something like that. It's impossible.
Mi5 Mick   Thursday, September 09, 2004, 11:48 GMT
<<So logically TV5 (if you use its real name) must be private. As you have observed there are not so many "coloured" people on french Tv. Don't you have that feeling? <<

Dunno, but probably not so many compared to America. All too often it's given more importance than vocational ability.

PS: watch your "colourful" vocabulary for PC (politiCo) and for the sake of sensitivities here ;)
Mi5 Mick   Thursday, September 09, 2004, 11:51 GMT
Mi5 Mick   Thursday, September 09, 2004, 11:57 GMT
>> I have hear in France speaking about a black french or something like that.>>

"Les Beurs" is a very real label for the N. Africans, so it all depends on the group's self-image.
nic   Thursday, September 09, 2004, 12:34 GMT
the word "beur" is used to design the second generation, people born in France with parents who were born in Algeria, Tunisia or Morocco. The difference with their parents is they speak fluently french, this is not always the case with their parents.

Can't we say in english coloured people, is it bad?
Mi5 Mick   Thursday, September 09, 2004, 12:54 GMT
I'm not sure anymore but it was bad for quite some time. I'll let someone else answer.
Mi5 Mick   Thursday, September 09, 2004, 13:52 GMT
Nic wrote: <<the word "beur" is used to design the second generation, people born in France with parents who were born in Algeria, Tunisia or Morocco.<<

So you see, identity must be important enough for people to have these contrived labels as in this case and not necessarily straightforward ones like "black" or "white". Though, as Elaine suggested, there's more in it than just a name. Elaine wrote: "Brown" isn't so much a complexion but a heritage and culture.

Then there are the French immigrants of N. Africa: les pieds-noirs.
Juan   Friday, September 10, 2004, 02:20 GMT
Steve K sez:
<<I thought you were some kind of PC Anglo. >>

Well, you thought wrong! ;-)

I'm sorry too for calling you "naive". What I was merely trying to say was that you were "being naive" <<on this issue>>. Not that you were "naive" full stop. It's pretty obvious to all and sundry that you're a very highly educated man, but you can't hope know everything can ya? We are always constantly learning and discovering new things until the day we die.

That's just but a mere small sample. But is not the signs that I take issue with per se. It's more the manner/tone of contempt that of some of these "borrowed" Spanish/Spanglish phrases are uttered in general daily conversations that concern and disappoint me at the same time. There is a hint of contempt and ridicule when they're are used, not that of prestige. This may well be not be the the worst case of "racism" in the States, nevertheless the intentions of the widespread usage of these phrases is questionable. I recommend you watch Pulp Fiction and wait for Bruce Willice character's dialogue with a hooker in a rental apartment nearing the end of a movie. I think the conversation goes along the lines that the "Mexican" language is quite easy to grasp and can be learnt in no time and with minimal effort. Read between the lines, it isn't that hard to figure out what he's insinuating/inferring. A Quentin Tarantino fan I'm not, he's script are of a vulgar, "racist", tacky and classless nature.

BTW I've never step foot in the USA for any period longer than 24 hours. So no I'm not a citizen of the United States of the America. Probably the only residantial status that I could ever hope to acheive there is that of a tourist.

<<absoutely innocuous signs on your link was so ridiculous>>

That's your personal opinion, not fact. Everybody's got a pair (opinions) and they usually stink! LOL :-)

<<Thank you Juan. Your English was so good>>

I think you're trying to be sarcastic (and failing miserably may I add) yet again but I'll let that one go, just this time. Is just plain petty that it's not even worth a response.
Julian   Friday, September 10, 2004, 04:27 GMT
"Can't we say in english coloured people, is it bad?"

I don't know about other English-speaking countries but in the US, it's politically incorrect to refer to people as "colored". However, for some reason, it's perfectly acceptable to refer to a non-Caucasian (a questionable term in itself) as a "person of color." Go figure! Another confounding point: the largest, most powerful African-American organization continues to call itself "The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People" (NAACP)!

Political correctness is so bewildering that one is left without a clue what to call people these days. When I was in school, our teachers told us not to refer to people as "black" but instead as "African-American". But now you have a network that calls itself BET (Black Entertainment Television), a fashion/beauty magazine called "Blactress", and a political group called Congressional Black Caucus. We were also told not to use the term "Oriental" but instead "Asian-American", yet many Asian-Americans still refer to themselves as Oriental. I guess they didn't get the memo. Further still, you have certain women's groups who object to the "patronizing" term "lady", yet there are nightclubs that have "Ladies Nights", our President's wife is called the "First Lady", and we still address mixed gatherings of people as "Ladies and Gentlemen". And now our friend Elaine writes about Chicanos chanting "Brown Power" and her Asian friends high-fiveing "Yellow Power"! I am sooo confused... ;-)
nic   Friday, September 10, 2004, 07:30 GMT
Mi5 Mick,

« Pieds noirs » are not only french by origin, they were french or spanish or italian, it’s the case for example with Enrico Macias (singer). They colonized Algeria during the French colonization and, when Algeria became independent they have been sent to France. One of my haunt by alliance is one of them and she is not French by her origins but Spanish.

It's the case for the actress who played in "Once upon a time in the west" i don't remember her name but she is a pied noir italian by origins.
Mi5 Mick   Friday, September 10, 2004, 07:41 GMT
Technically you may be correct, but I know when Francophones say it we usually means those of French origin.
Mi5 Mick   Friday, September 10, 2004, 07:43 GMT
means-> mean
Mi5 Mick   Friday, September 10, 2004, 07:47 GMT
ou bien pied-noir de souche italienne.
nic   Friday, September 10, 2004, 07:50 GMT
I did not know, but it's bizarre because you can be francophone and not being from french origins, like people from Senegal, algerians...

Pieds noirs (1st generation) are not only francophone but "arabophone" 2, hispanophone or italophone 2. My haunt's mother speak at 1st spanish, she speaks french fluently but her 1st language is spanish and she is a pied noir.