''Mom/Mum'' and ''Dad'' and ''mother/father''

Jose   Friday, October 08, 2004, 01:59 GMT
I was once told by my English teacher that ''Mom'' (or ''Mum'') and ''Dad'' should only be used as titles and when your talking about your mother or father, you should use ''mother'' and ''father''. Is this true?

They said, say ''Dad went to work''.

But don't ever say ''Their dad went to work'', that should be ''Their father went to work''.
Mi5 Mick   Friday, October 08, 2004, 02:33 GMT
I don't see anything wrong with ''Their dad went to work''. Some teachers have funny ideas because they probably never bother to listen to natives interacting; many of these ideas come from textbooks.
mjd   Friday, October 08, 2004, 03:57 GMT
"His dad/mo[u]m" is fine and is used all the time by native speakers.
Mxsmanic   Friday, October 08, 2004, 07:14 GMT
Your teacher was making up rules that don't exist.
Jose   Saturday, October 09, 2004, 02:08 GMT
"His dad/mo[u]m" is fine and is used all the time by native speakers.''

Is that the same to all dialects of English? I'm taking my class in Scotland.

My teacher is telling us not to use ''dad'' and ''mum/mom/mam'' as anything but titles. Whenever anyone in my class talks abouts their father and says ''my dad'' the teacher always corrects them and tells them to say ''my father''.

''Your teacher was making up rules that don't exist.''

Should I try to find a different teacher? Is that a bad teacher?

Also, Should I worry about distinguishing the ''ng'' in ''ring'', ''bring'', ''greeting'', ''morning'', ''hung'', ''hang'', ''song'' etc. from the ''ng'' in the ''-ing'' suffix as in ''fighting'' and ''getting''. My teacher told us that the ''ng'' in the ''-ing'' suffix is a velar nasal but the ''ng'' sound in -''ring'', ''bring'', ''greeting'', ''morning'', ''hung'', ''hang'', and ''song'' ia an uvular nasal. We're being taught to distinguish the two sounds. My teacher says that the distinction is common in the area that I live in.

Also, one last thing, Is it true that ''they're not'' and ''he's not'' and ''I'm not'' are wrong? My teacher told us that you should say ''they're not'', ''he's not'' and ''I amn't'' and that saying ''they're not'', ''he's not'' and ''I'm not'' are wrong.
Mxsmanic   Saturday, October 09, 2004, 09:13 GMT
Where you find your teachers is up to you. All I can say is that the distinction your teacher makes for mom and dad is nonexistent in standard English; I suppose there might be regional differences.

The velar and uvular nasals are allophones of the same phoneme in English; they are pretty much invariably transcribed as the velar nasal. I don't see any reason why you should learn a distinction between the two unless your goal is to completely suppress and accent for the specific area in which you live. The distinction tends to develop naturally in certain positions, but it is not phonemic; it's like the flap that replaces intervocalic 't' in most variants of English (in "butter," for example). If your teacher is going to be that finicky he may as well point out that the nasal disappears entirely in some situations: for example, Americans often pronounce soaking /soki:n/ such that it rhymes with machine /m@Si:n/, or pronounce it as /sokIn/ such that it rhymes with pin /pIn/.

"They're not," "he's not," and "I'm not" are all just fine. They are used all the time by many speakers of English. "They aren't" and "he isn't" are alternate forms of the first two. Your choice depends on where you wish to place the emphasis in the phrase. However, "I amn't" is incorrect in most varieties of English, and in fact it won't be understood in most English-speaking parts of the world.

Your teacher has some very strange ideas. Is he supposed to be teaching you standard English, or just some local neighborhood dialect?
Jose   Saturday, October 09, 2004, 15:08 GMT
''The velar and uvular nasals are allophones of the same phoneme in English; they are pretty much invariably transcribed as the velar nasal. I don't see any reason why you should learn a distinction between the two unless your goal is to completely suppress and accent for the specific area in which you live. The distinction tends to develop naturally in certain positions, but it is not phonemic; it's like the flap that replaces intervocalic 't' in most variants of English (in "butter," for example). If your teacher is going to be that finicky he may as well point out that the nasal disappears entirely in some situations: for example, Americans often pronounce soaking /soki:n/ such that it rhymes with machine /m@Si:n/, or pronounce it as /sokIn/ such that it rhymes with pin /pIn/.''

My teacher is telling us that the distinction between the velar nasal and the uvular nasal is phonemic in Scots English because it distinguishes ''greeting'' (a greeting) from ''greeting'' (greeting).

''"They're not," "he's not," and "I'm not" are all just fine. They are used all the time by many speakers of English. "They aren't" and "he isn't" are alternate forms of the first two. Your choice depends on where you wish to place the emphasis in the phrase. However, "I amn't" is incorrect in most varieties of English, and in fact it won't be understood in most English-speaking parts of the world.''

My teacher is telling us that ''they're not'', ''he's not'' and ''I'm not'' are wrong and ''they aren't'', ''he isn't'' and ''I amn't'' are the correct way to say them.

''Your teacher has some very strange ideas. Is he supposed to be teaching you standard English, or just some local neighborhood dialect?''

My teacher is teaching us Scottish English.

Is there any distinction between ''mom/mam/mum'' vs. ''mother'' and ''dad'' vs. ''father'' at all in English?

Also, I have some other questions,

Is there a distinction in pronunciation between the words ''dew'', ''do'', ''doo'' and ''due''? My teacher is telling us that ''dew'' should be pronounce [dju:], ''do'' should be pronounced [dU:], ''doo'' should be pronounced [du:] and ''due'' should be pronounced [dy:]. Is that true? Should I worry about trying to distinguish the four words ''dew'', ''do'', ''doo'' and ''due''?

Is there a distinction in pronunciation between ''road'', ''rode'' and ''rowed'' and the ''o'' in ''post''? My teacher is telling us that ''road'' should be pronounced [ro..d], ''rode'' should be pronounced [ro:d], ''rowed'' should be pronounced [roUd] and the ''o'' in ''post'' should be pronounced [@u]? Is that true? Should I worry about distinguishing the four sounds?

Is there a distinction in pronunciation between ''mete'', ''meat'', ''meet'' and ''mitt''? My teacher is telling us that ''mete'' should be pronounced [mI:t], ''meat'' should be pronounced [miot], ''meet'' should be pronounced [mit] and ''mitt'' should be pronounced [mIt]. Is that true? Should I worry about distinguishing the four vowels.

Is there a distinction between ''people'' and ''persons''? My teacher is telling us that ''persons'' should only be used talking about individuals and that ''people'' should only be used when talking about a group. Is that true?
Jose   Saturday, October 09, 2004, 15:32 GMT
Also, Is the plural of ''cow'', ''cows'' or ''kine''? My teacher said it should be ''kine''.

Is the plural of ''deer'', ''deer'' or ''deers''? My teacher said it should be ''deer''.

Is there a distinction in pronunciation between the diagraphs ''aw'' and ''au'', ''ow'' and ''ou'', ''ai'' and ''ay'', and ''oi'' and ''oy''? My teacher said that there is. My teacher said that ''thou'' and ''now'' don't rhyme in Scots English. Should I worry about making the distinctions?

Is there a distinction in pronunciation between the ''i'' in ''him'' and the ''y'' in ''gym''? My teacher said that the ''i'' in ''him'' is should be pronounced [I] and the ''y'' in ''gym'' should be pronounced [y]. Should I worry about distinguishing them?

I think I might try to find a different teacher.
Mxsmanic   Saturday, October 09, 2004, 19:31 GMT
I tend to agree. Unless your goal is to learn Scottish English specifically, your teacher is wasting your time.

Scottish English might be handy if you plan to spend your entire life in Scotland speaking to other inhabitants; but even then, everyone in Scotland understands standard English as well.

Learning standard English would allow you to talk to any English speaker in the world, not just the Scots. Learning distinctions that are nonexistent outside Scotland is a waste of time better spent learning to speak standard English more proficiently.
Jose   Saturday, October 09, 2004, 20:29 GMT
Some other questions,

Is there a distinction in pronunciation between ''mb'', ''mn'' and ''m''? My Teacher told me that the ''m'' in ''com'' should be pronounced [m], the ''mb'' in ''bomb'' should be pronounced [mb] and the ''mn'' in ''colomn'' should be pronounced [m_j]. Should I worry about making the distinctions?

Is there a distinction in pronunciation between the ''i'' in ''find'', the ''i'' in ''bite'', the ''ai'' in ''aisle'', the ''ei'' in ''einstein'' and the ''y'' in ''byte''?
My teacher told us that there was. Should I worry about distinguishing them?

Is there a distinction in pronunciation between the ''c'' in ''carat'', the ''k'' in ''karat'', the ''q'' in ''unique'', the ''ck'' in ''lock'' and the ''ch'' in ''loch''? My teacher told us that the ''c'' in ''carat'' should be [c], the ''k'' in ''karat'' should be [k], the ''q'' in ''unique'' should be [q], the ''ck'' in ''lock'' should be [x:] and the ''ch'' in ''loch'' should be [x].

Is there a distinction in pronunciation between the ''c'' in ''cent'', the ''s'' in ''sent'', the ''sc'' in ''scent'', the ''ps'' in ''psalm'', the ''s'' in ''raise'', the ''x'' in ''xylophone'' and the ''z'' in ''zoo''? My teacher told us that the ''c'' in ''cent'' should be [s\], the ''s'' in ''sent'' should be [s], the ''sc'' in ''scent'' should be [s:], the ''ps'' in ''psalm'' should be [s`], the ''s'' in ''raise'' should be [z`] the ''x'' in ''xylophone'' should be [z\] and the ''z'' in ''zoo'' should be [z]. Should I worry about making the distinctions?

Is there a distinction in pronunciation between the ''g'' in ''gentle'', the ''dge'' in ''judge'', the ''g'' in ''genre'', the ''j'' in ''jet'' and the ''j'' in ''jeep''. My teacher told me that the ''g'' in ''gentle'' should be pronounced [J\], the ''dge'' in ''judge'' should be pronounced [dz\], the ''g'' in ''genre'' should be pronounced [Z] ,the ''j'' in ''jet'' should be pronounced [dZ] and the ''j'' in ''jeep'' should be pronounced [dz]. Should I worry about making the distinctions?

Is there a distinction in pronunciation between the ''ch'' in ''chip'', the ''ch'' in ''chowk'' and the ''tch'' in ''match''? My teacher told us that the ''ch'' in ''chip'' should be pronounced [tS], the ''ch'' in ''chowk'' should be pronounced [ts] and the ''tch'' in ''match'' should be pronounced [ts\]. Should I worry about making the distinction?

My teacher also told us to pronounce ''ss'', ''ll'', ''ff'' and ''zz'' at the end of words as [s:], [l:], [f:] and [z:].

''Learning standard English would allow you to talk to any English speaker in the world, not just the Scots. Learning distinctions that are nonexistent outside Scotland is a waste of time better spent learning to speak standard English more proficiently.''

I'm going to try to find another teacher. The problem with my teacher is that he gives to many details.
Jose   Saturday, October 09, 2004, 21:07 GMT
Is there a distinction in pronunciation between the ''o'' in ''cot'', the ''au'' in ''caught'', the ''o'' in ''cloth'', the ''o'' in ''tonic'', the ''ou'' in ''thought'' and the ''a'' in ''wall''? My teacher told us that the ''o'' in ''cot'' should be pronounced [Q], the ''au'' in ''caught'' should be pronounced [O], the ''o'' in ''cloth'' should be pronounced [œ], the ''o'' in ''tonic'' should be pronounced [Q:], the ''ou'' in ''thought'' should be pronounced [OU] and the ''a'' in ''wall'' should be pronounced [O:]. Should I worry about trying to make these distinctions?

Is there a distinction in pronunciation between the ''a'' in ''manor'' and the ''a'' in ''manner''? My teacher told me that there was a difference between the two ''a's''.

Is there a distinction in pronunciation between ''sun'' and ''son''? My teacher told us that ''sun'' should be pronounced [sVn] and ''son'' should be pronounced [son]. Should I worry about making the distinction?

Is there a distinction in pronunciation between the the ''u'' in ''turn'' and ''sun'' and the ''o'' in ''won'' and ''work''? My teacher told me that the ''u'' in ''turn'' and ''sun'' should be pronounced [V] but the ''o'' in ''won'' and ''work'' should be pronounced [3]. Is this true?

Is there a distinction in pronunciation between the the ''o'' in ''font'' and the ''a'' in ''wasp''? My teacher told us to pronounce the ''a'' in ''font'' as [Q] and to pronounce the ''a'' in ''wasp'' as [a].

I need to find a good teacher that doesn't go through so many details.
abc   Saturday, October 09, 2004, 21:18 GMT
your teacher sounds like a frantic, capitulating beast.
Jose   Saturday, October 09, 2004, 21:18 GMT
Is there a distinction between the ''b'' in ''bang'', the ''bh'' in ''bhang'' and the ''v'' in ''vent''? My teacher told us that the ''b'' in ''bang'' should be pronounced [b], the ''bh'' in ''bhang'' should be pronounced [B], and the ''v'' in ''vent'' should be pronounced [v].

Is there a distinction between the ''f'' in ''fat'', the ''gh'' in ''laugh'', the ''p'' in ''pipe'' and the ''ph'' in ''phone''? My teacher told me that the ''f'' in should be [f], the ''gh'' in ''laugh'' should be [p\:], the ''p'' in ''pipe'' should be [p] and the ''ph'' in ''phone'' should be pronounced [p\]. Should I worry about making the distinctions?

Is there a distinction between the ''g'' in ''get'' and the ''gh'' in ''ghastly''? My teacher told us that the ''g'' in ''get'' should be a velar stop and the ''gh'' in ''ghastly'' should be an uvular stop.
Jose   Sunday, October 10, 2004, 00:15 GMT
Is there a distinction between ''r'' and ''rh''? My teacher told us that the ''r'' should be pronounced ''r'' and ''rh'' should be pronounce as a voiceless rolled ''r''.

Is there a distinction between ''qu'' and ''kw''? My teacher told us that the ''kw'' should be pronounced as a rounded [k] followed by a [w] and that ''qu'' should be pronounced as a rounded [k] not followed by a [w].

Is there a distinction between ''gu'' and ''gw''? My teacher told us that the ''gw'' should be pronounced as a rounded [g] followed by a [w] and that ''qu'' should be pronounced as a rounded [g] not followed by a [w].

Is there a phonemic distinction between the light ''l'' and the dark ''l''? My
teacher told us that the ''l'' in ''light'' should be pronounced as a dark ''l'' and the ''l'' in ''luid'' should be pronounced as a dark ''l'' and also that the ''l'' in ''pal'' should be pronounced as a dark ''l'' and the ''l'' in ''ville'' should be pronounced as a light ''l''.

Is there a distinction between the ''n'' in ''rein'' and the ''gn'' in ''reign''? My teacher told us that the ''gn'' in ''reign'' should be pronounced as a voiceless velar nasal.

Is there a phonemic distinction between the ''r'' in ''road'' and the ''r'' in ''car''? My teacher told us that the ''r'' in ''starry'' should be pronounced like the ''r'' in ''car'' and that the ''r'' in ''sari'' should be pronounced like the ''r'' in ''red'' and that the ''r'' in ''ruid'' should be pronounced like the ''r'' in ''car''.

Is there a distinction between the ''w'' in ''west'', the ''wh'' in ''what'', the ''wh'' in ''wheel'' and the ''w'' in ''ware''? My teacher told us that the ''w'' in ''west'' should be pronounced [w], the ''wh'' in ''wheel'' should be pronounced as an aspirated [w], the ''wh'' in ''while'' should be pronounced as a rounded [h] and that the ''w'' in ''ware'' should be pronounced as a voiceless [w].

I'm looking for a different teacher.

''your teacher sounds like a frantic, capitulating beast.''

Yeah, I'm starting to think that. I'm going to find a different teacher. That teacher gives too many details.
Jose   Sunday, October 10, 2004, 00:45 GMT
Is there a distinction between the ''sh'' in ''ship'', the ''ch'' in ''chef'' and the ''sch'' in ''schwa''? My teacher told us that ''sch'' should be pronounced as a long ''sh'' and that ''ch'' in ''chef'' should be pronounced [C].

I'm not going back to that teacher. Or should that be ''I amn't going back to that teacher'' like my teacher told me. That teacher is giving me too much detail for me to even want to come back.