Too, to, two. Getting rid of the words ''two'' and ''too''.

Erimir   Sunday, December 05, 2004, 22:26 GMT
I'll repeat it, since you like repetition:

Pay special attention to Objection 11.

Then, instead of posting a repeat of that list of pronunciation differences, address the argument.
Toasté   Monday, December 06, 2004, 17:38 GMT
Spelling reform is a dumb idea, which if we tried it, would result in a dumbed down version of the language.

Complexity is what makes the English language beautiful. Spelling reform would destroy that. If you want to reform a language go somewhere else.
Erimir   Tuesday, December 07, 2004, 09:59 GMT
It doesn't reform the language, just the writing system.

Grammar would stay the same. Vocabulary, same. Speech, same. You speak as in your normal dialect, but the spelling is now a better match (but not perfect, since we're compromising with other speakers).

It wouldn't be dumbed down (whatever you mean by that). You can still deride ending sentences with prepositions, and splitting infinitives all you like. You can still follow those rules, and write in as stilted a style as you want to. That is entirely unaffected by spelling reform.

Of course, I suspect what you mean by dumbed down is probably something I would disagree with being dumb anyway. Do you consider African-American English to be inferior to the standard, or simply different?

Read about AAVE aspect marking, and then tell me it's less complex than standard English.

And by the way, are you implying that other languages are less complex?

Read an intro linguistics book, and call me in the morning.
Sanja   Wednesday, December 08, 2004, 18:05 GMT
"Sanja, Are you telling me that you pronounce ''two'', ''to'' and ''too'' differently?"

I didn't say that, I said you can distinguish them in speech because they mean completely different things. By the way, I pronounce "two" and "too" the same, but "to" is shorter.
Toasté   Thursday, December 09, 2004, 15:10 GMT
Erimir... the English writing system IS the beauty and complexity of the language. Written English, in all its complexity is virtually a different language than spoken English. I would not support doing anything to change that language.

I have no problems with people writing in a conversational style, I have no problems with people using new words or cultural words, I have no problem with people introducing foreign words into the language to explain new ideas or to add different shades of meaning. In fact, as many people will attest, I am at times excessively politially correct when it comes to language tollerance.

But I draw the line at spelling reform. It is one thing if spelling changes and reforms naturally over time and through consensual use, it is quite another thing for people to sit down and reform it on behalf of everyone. THAT, I think, would be a major mistake.

When it gets down to it, I don't think English SHOULD be the world language, which is why I don't think it should be reformed. English should be allowed to grow and evolve on its own.

As for your other comment... I do not regard African-American English as dumb, in fact, I think it is one of the most exciting English variants. It is scurilous to take a general negative comment about spelling reform and use it to suggest that someone must be prejudiced against an ethnic and linguistic minority. Shame on you.