if twenty=twenny why isn't ninety=niny - page 2

I probably should have specified my region. Yeah, I'd say the T is definitely pronounced more often than not here in the Northeast. It's a quick T sound, but it's definitely there.

Ideally pronunciation should be modified so that things are pronounced as they are spelled (and never the other way around). So it may be a good thing when people pronounce exactly what they see, over the long term.

Perhaps in a distant future, the British will even learn to pronounce final 'r' when they see it, and stop pronouncing 'r' where none appears in writing (ideaR, etc.).

Mxsmanic, Should we start pronouncing ''Wednesday'' as ''wed-nes-day'' and ''one'' the same way as ''own''?

''Ideally pronunciation should be modified so that things are pronounced as they are spelled (and never the other way around). So it may be a good thing when people pronounce exactly what they see, over the long term.''

Mxsmanic, If you think that is true then why do you say that ESL Students learning to distinction ''Mary'', ''marry'' and ''merry'' is not important. If they distinguished them then they'd be pronouncing to match spelling.

The British learned to not pronounced "final R"; there's no reason to unlearn this: there's as much of a chance of this happening as there is for Americans to magically drop "final R" and speak non-rhotic English a la New Yorker. This isn't a good argument because there are far worse inconsistencies in English where consonants and vowels go unpronounced. eg. 'k' and "gh" in knight, 'b' in "doubt", "ou" in "colour", etc, etc as someone previously mentioned.

Nup, it won't happen. There is no reason why this should change drastically like it did a few centuries ago. Remember, a spelling system is used to represent a spoken language (even if poorly, as in the case of English); not the other way around, else the spoken version would sound artifical and unaesthetic.

Just like the French may have once upon a time pronounced "final R" in verbs of the infinitive, they no longer do. eg. "marcher" is pronounced "marché". Orthography isn't a reason for this 'r' to be pronounced in French. If orthography dictated, then it would be modified, not pronunciation.

* pronounced-> pronounce; artifical -> artificial

To the other Joe:

Well from my experience, and I'm from Long Island, NY, the t isn't pronounced. I don't know how it works in New England, but of course the New England and New York accents are very, very different. Boston is totally different as well.

I no longer have a NY accent, because I moved to Florida when I was younger, around the age of 10. So I have that almost neutral Floridian accent, it's almost like a Midwest accent except we do have hints of Northeastern influence, I think, since we have such a Northeastern transplant community.

I too must beg to differ with Mxsmanic. To modify pronunciation "so that things are pronounced as they are spelled" is not what I'd call ideal by any stretch. However, I would agree that this has some merits over spelling reform.

How are we going to pronounce such words as "people", "thorough", "nowhere", "doubt", "gnu", "shoe", "tear", "bow", "walk", "cough", "should", "women" ... oh, the list could go on and on ... ?

I don't think that it would "be a good thing when people pronounce exactly what they see" over any term long, short or medium.

Jim,

How about these,

people-[peop.l]
thorough-[thOurauG]
nowhere-[nOuWi:r]
doubt-[daubt]
gnu-[gnu:]
shoe-[shOu]
tear-[ti:r]
bow-[bau]
walk-[w@lk]
cough-[kauG]
should-[Sauld]
women-[wOumen]

This is how we'll pronounce these words.

[eo] becomes a new diphthong phoneme in English.

I agree that it would sound strange though.

[ai ..gri: TH@t it wauld saund str@nje THauG].

Some more words,

woman-[wOum@n]
poor-[pu:r]
flour-[flaur]
flower-[flau-..r]
come-[kOum]
comb-[komb]
core-[kOur]
corps-[korps]
head-[hi:d]
break-[bri:k]
where-[Wi:r]
there-[THi:r]
here-[hi:r]
oar-[Our]
four-[faur]
you-[jau]
your-[jaur]

Also,

suit-[sju:t]
super-[sju:p..r]
nation-[n@tjon]
national-[n@tjon@l]
natioality-[n@tjon@liti]
lute-[lju:t]
rude-[rju:d]
knee-[kni:]
knight-[kniKt]
night-[niKt]
write-[wrait]
wrestle-[wrest.l]
work-[work]
word-[word]
world-[world]
hear-[hi:r]
heard-[hi:rd]
herd-[herd]
rule-[rju:l]
fuse-[fju:s]
as-[@s]
is-[is]
his-[his]
blue-[blju:]
grew-[grju:]

which is correct to say: 1) plan of action "this is my plan of action"
2) action plan "this is my action plan"

Sherry: The first one.