Rule Britannia

Easterner   Wednesday, December 08, 2004, 08:14 GMT
>>I have heard that Catalonia is a region of Spain that is always revolting and that there is a lot of nationalsim there.<<

I think Basque nationalism is more of a threat to the unity of Spain than Catalonian. Honestly, I have never heard of any secessionist movement among Catalonians, unlike Harri Batasuna and its "radical" terrorist wing ETA among Basques. But as I know, most Basque people are getting fed up with ETA, too.

By the way, "Spanish" culture is indebted to a great deal to Catalonian artists, in much the same way as English culture owes a lot to the Irish. As I know, Dali, Gaudí, Miró and Bunuel were all Catalonians, weren't they, Jordi? One other region of (Castilian) Spain that has bred famous artists was Andalusia, think of Lorca and Picasso.
vincent   Wednesday, December 08, 2004, 09:26 GMT
There are several independentist movements and parties in Catalonia, overall in Gerona region. The strongest of them is the "Esquerra Republicana" party whose leader was formerly prime minister of the catalonian government but since he entered in a secret agreement with ETA in order that this organisation shall not attack Catalonia and Catalonian interests (but the rest of Spain, yes they can), he had to resign because of the tremendous scandal. But the majority of the Catalonians, overall in Barcelona region, are not independentist.
Jordi   Wednesday, December 08, 2004, 10:42 GMT
Dear Vincent:
It's a pity and I won't get too far into it but do French journalists and citizens only have a delegation in Madrid and Paris? It has been proven absolutely false, by the justice, that Carod-Rovira had such an agreement with ETA. The only thing that he did was to speak to them and ask them "to give peace a chance" and "for everybody". He went to Perpinyà (in France although historically a part of Catalonia).
The Spanish will never forgive him for doing so or for belonging to a peaceful Independentist party. Catalanism has always been a peaceful option. If it would have been otherwise the Madrid government would have rendered it illegal as they did with the Basque.
Otherwise, as a member of the Catalonian Parliament he would already be in gaol. I happen to read Spanish and Catalan papers every day.
In 2003, ERC (Esquerra Republicana de Catalunya) had 16,4% of the votes in Catalonia, although it reached almost 30% in the Priorat (far south and not far north in Girona where they are around 25%) It also had 15,5% of the votes in the city of Barcelona.
The latest surveys says that 40,5% of Catalans feel more Catalan than Spanish (of these 16,4% feel "only Catalan" and the rest "more Catalan tha Spanish". Considering more than 40% of Catalonia's population is made up by migrants from other Spanish region it pretty much tells you how Catalans feel about their country.
The French Government, of course, is scared to death and does all it can to stop this on her footstep. Right now, the French Government is doing all that is possible to stop Catalan from being an official EU language.

That my dear friend is the truth and I've taken the trouble to go and check in the Internet. I would hardly dare speak too much about what I don't know, specially from a neighbouring country and without following the politics of my neighbours.
And, yes, I go to France very often and know a few of the native languages that are still spoken on her soil.
Jordi   Wednesday, December 08, 2004, 10:47 GMT
Of course, the Spanish Government is even more worried. The eastern Spanish seabord is the richest and most developed area in Spain and Catalan is spoken in other important Spanish regions (Valencia, Balearic Island and long strip in Aragon next to the Catalan border). Without forgetting, the bit of Catalonia that was given to France in the 17th century and where Catalan is still spoken.
Damian   Wednesday, December 08, 2004, 11:35 GMT
Erm...please remember the title of this thread!

"This royal throne of kings, this scepter'd isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise;
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war;
This happy breed of men, this little world;
This precious stone set in a silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall,
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands;
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
this nurse, this teeming womb of royal kings,
Fear'd by their breed, and famous by their birth,
Renowned for their deeds as far from home.

(From Dicky 2, courtesy of Will, yon lad from Stratford)
Jim   Thursday, December 09, 2004, 03:39 GMT
Yes, yes, back to the British anthems and let's not forget the fourth verse, which Damian must just love.

God grant the Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring,
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King!

So should the UK change it's national anthem? I say, "Nae! Keep 'God Save The Queen' ... but let it be the Sex Pistols' version."
andy   Thursday, December 09, 2004, 11:50 GMT
home sweet home!
Damian   Thursday, December 09, 2004, 12:44 GMT
<<Rebellious Scots to crush,>>

Isn't that verse just God awful???

Rebellious? Moi? Aye....up to the hilt in my kilt!!!
Crushed? Nae chance...never as long as there remains a
breath in me!

Anyway, I don't much care what the overall UK anthem is..I just object to one proclaiming the glories of one individual however gracious the dear old lady is, bless here! Up here in the rebellious wild North we're quite happy with "Flower of Scotland".....or "Scotland the Brave".

Dunn   Saturday, December 11, 2004, 04:22 GMT
"Anyway, I don't much care what the overall UK anthem is..I just object to one proclaiming the glories of one individual however gracious the dear old lady is, bless here!"

I think "the Queen" is not just the old lady. It is a symbol, like the Union Jack and the Anthem :-)
Móncia (to Easterner)   Saturday, December 11, 2004, 16:17 GMT
The director Buñuel is not Catalan, he was born in a little town called Calanda in the province of Teruel, inside the region of Aragón, so he is Aragones, not Catalans.

For me the most important Spanish painters are Goya, Velázquez and Picasso, one from Aragón and two from Andalucía.
svalovec   Friday, December 17, 2004, 03:44 GMT

"When you look at what is going on in Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia"


Czechoslovakia ceased to exist 11 years (nearly 12) ago. Yes it did devolve into the Czech Republic (Ceska Republika) and Slovakia (Slovensko) in very amicable circumstances, but that was more than a decade ago.

Please everybody, update your atlases.
Ed   Friday, December 17, 2004, 04:13 GMT
If the Queen should be succeeded by a male, would they change the anthem to God Save the King?
Jim   Friday, December 17, 2004, 04:20 GMT
Yes, just as they had done in 1952 when ERII became queen.