Does English have a 'germanic' sound

I was just wondering if there is a 'germanic' sound to germanic languages. If there is, does English share this sound? To me, the scandinavian languages, dutch and german all sound 'germanic', I'm just wondering if it is the same for others when they hear them, and is it the same for english as well?

Sanitsuda,

This is kind of a tough question. English has lost the gutteral sounds that you find in other Germanic languages like Dutch, German, Yiddish , Danish and Icelandic; but it preserves the primitive Germanic w, th an dh sounds which modern Germans and Scandinavians have difficulty pronouncing. Teutonic (Germanic h) is well preserved in North American English but has nearly disappeared in British English just as it has in French words of Germanic origin like hache, hêtre, haie, haine and hibou.

For all practical purposes, however, most people think of gutterality when they hear the words "Germanic languages". Therefore, they would probably tell you that English doesn't sound all that Germanic. On one occasion, I remember a South African telling a a group of people I was having lunch with that his native language Afrikaans was a Germanic language like Dutch, German and the Scandinavian languages. I remember interrupting him and saying "You forgot English." He then said "Uh, yeah, and English ."

To me, Literary English looks more Germanic, almost like Visigothic when it is written in the International Phonetic Script rather than the regular Roman Alphabet. This is because in the IPA words are spelled phonetically and you don't see all those Frenchified spellings that Norman scribes introduced into the language during the Middle Ages.

Brennus,


Normans on middle ages did not speak french but norman, it's totally different.

Dear Alec,

Norman French is a dialect of French closely related to two other northern French dialects, Picard and Walloon.

It was the original basis of Quebecois French in Canada although Quebec French has become increasingly more Parisianized in the past 40 years. For instance, nowadays, Quebeckers use the standard French moustique more often for "mosquito" than the original Quebecois (and Norman) French maringouin.

You must have read about this before.

--- Brennus

Brennus,


L'originalité du normand vient de l'influence des envahisseurs germains (4e et 5e siècles). Les scandinaves apporteront essentiellement le vocabulaire de la mer. """"Ce n'est que peu à peu que la langue de l'Ile-de-France - devenue le français - s'imposera comme langue officielle et littéraire.""""


http://magene.chez.tiscali.fr/

Norman-French was also the language spoken in the courtyards of England but getting back to Quebec... by the time French had reached Canada in the 16th century, the period of Norman French had been long gone. So how could it have affected their language? It seems the Quebecois accent is heavily Anglo-influenced, perhaps less so in the cosmopolitan Montreal where it sounds closer to the Parisian accent. But in the regional areas, diphthong pronunciations are in abundance and the accent has an Irish-Canadian twist to it. It doesn't really sound Latin compared the French of France.

Brennus, normand is of course a langue d'oïl, being a langue d'oïl does not mean it's a french language.

As you will notice because it's 2 romance languages there are some common points.

AS you will notice french and normand are different


http://www.google.fr/search?q=cache:WWBeK-BtH3cJ:fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normand+influence+anglais+normand&hl=fr

anglais / normand / français
fashion faichon façon
causeway cauchie chaussée
catch cachi chasser
cater acater acheter
mug mogue, moque (grande) tasse
pocket pouquette poche
candle caundèle chandelle
fork fouorque fourche
chair tchair chaise


differences between normand and french
normand français
bel cour ?
bète appât
gardîn jardin
gradile groseille
graie préparer
hague cenelle
hardelle fille
hèrnais charrette
hougue mont (petit)
mauve mouette
mielle dune
mucre humide
nez cap
pouque sac

a language is a language and a dialect is a dialect...

Brennus,

Thanks for your take on the topic, very interesting. Is there a language or language family that you think English does sound more like it belongs too then germanic? I would love to hear any of your other thoughts on the topic, and any one else's as well, of course.

alec, also known as nic,

Shut up!

Brennus,

Could you tell me where I could view some literary english written in the International Phonetic Alphabet?

Wich Nic are you talking about?

Alec, what's your point?

We all know that Norman French was not French, but it was obviously a dialect of French.

This is what Wikipedia has to say about it:
"The Norman people adopted Christianity and the French language"

"As a langue d'oïl, Anglo-Norman had developed collaterally to the central Gallo-Romance dialects that would eventually become Parisian French, in terms of grammar, pronunciation, and vocabulary - it being also important to remember that before the 15th century French had not been standardised as an official administrative language of the kingdom of France. Middle English was heavily influenced by Anglo-Norman; most words of Romance origin in English are derived from Anglo-Norman rather than continental Parisian French. Some etymologists have called Anglo-Norman 'the missing link' because many etymological dictionaries seem to ignore the contribution of that language in English.

Although English survived and eventually eclipsed Anglo-Norman, the latter had been sufficiently widespread as to permanently change English. This is why English has lost many original Germanic characteristics that are still strong in German and Dutch."

We also know that the Norman's introduced many words on Norse origin into their language and "Frenchified" them. Wikipedia makes an example of the word flock, which is from the Norman "Flloquet", but of Germanic origin rather than of a romance origin.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Norman_language

We've gotten into kind of a mess here and I almost shouldn't say anything more especially but I will anyway.

Alec : You did a good job of compiling word comparisons between Norman and Parisian French. I also saw the Wikipedia site you posted. However, I'm not sure that these differences are enough to impede understanding between Norman and Parisian speakers. Spanish speakers can still get the gist of a Portuguese conversation and German speakers the gist of a Yiddish conversation, and we are talking about greater linguistic differences in these areas than we are between Walloon, Picard, Norman and Parisian French. Keep in mind that most of the Norman French words that entered English are "Old Norman French" and that this dialect has changed over time just as Parisian French has. In fact, King Philippe Auguste's confiscation of Normandy in 1204 was basically the end of the its association with England. It has been terra francensis ever since.

Tiffany: I'll have to vote for you on this one. If Normandy had remained connected to England after 1204 the Norman dialect might have developed into a Romance language as different from French as Portuguese is from Spanish, but that didnt happen.

Santisuda: English is almost in a class by itself as far as its sounds and phonology are concerned. In fact, American English nasals are not found even anywhere in England today as far as I know. In New York you have a pronunciation of words like coward, power, and shower (caurd, paur, and shaur) that is almost remniscent of Mandarin Chinese instead of standard English: cow-urd. pow-ur and shau-wur).

Sanitsuda, English was originally derived from the dialects of the Angles the Saxons and the Jutes who moved from Saxony, located in modern day Germany to Britian around the 5th century. The language was later influenced by the arrival of the Danes in the 8th century. Thus the English language's primary roots are Germanic and so the language was categorized as Germanic. The Norman invasion did not take place till the 11th century, when English became more latin-influenced which began to mix with the Germanic vernacular. English has become a language with two registers - a higher register from the latin vernacular (as french was mainly spoken in the courts and by the hierarchy) and a lower register of the Norse-Germanic vernacular which appealed to the general public. For example:

"to get" is Germanic, while "to recieve" is Latin