ok here is the deal:
I watch a lot of american tv shows , and I've noticed that a lot of american speakers change the "t" sound in a "ch" sound, in some words like:
TRee
TRauma
cenTRal
TRace
TRack
TRick
TRue
counTRy
TRouble
TRuth
TRy
TRiangle
desTRoy
You can hear it on "One TRee hill", when the voice says :"previously on One tree hill", I can hear "one CHREE hill"...
Anyway, what's up with that?? It's a regional thing or something? does it happen in all the "tr" words?
I suppose the same thing happens with the "DR" sound, that become a "Jd" (as in "jam"), right?
I'm American, and I've never heard "tr" pronounced that way. You're probably just mishearing it.
I've never heard of such a thing.
We might change our t's to ch's whenever 't' precedes 'u' (tune, fortune, picture, venture, etc.), but never in those words you listed above.
I am Japanese and I can see how tree sounds a bit like ch-ree for Japanese people. In fact, it sounds a bit like that to me, too. But tree and chree are different, I think.
Well, depends. At least in the dialect here in Wisconsin, that is exactly what happens. /tr/ is realized as [tSr\] ("chr"), /dr/ is realized as [dZr\] ("jr"), and /str/ is realized as [StSr\] ("shchr"), in a systematic fashion. I myself associate a "pure" /tr/ or /dr/ with, say, German, like in the word "drei", which is pronounced /draI/ --> [dRaI], not [dZRaI]. I do remember a period as a little kid though when I pronounced my name as /"tr{vIs/ --> [tr\{.vIs] rather than as /"tr{vIs/ --> [tSr\{.vIs], as I could already read by then, but I somehow hadn't figured out that what is written "tr" is not pronounced quite as written literally, in the dialect here, and hence I used a bit of a spelling pronunciation of my own name.
Crap, that was supposed to be "[dr\aI], not [dZr\aI]" - I forgot that an alveolar "r" is used in most High German dialects in the syllable-initial consonant clusters /tr/ and /dr/, even though a uvular "r" is very often used in most other places.
"I'm American, and I've never heard "tr" pronounced that way. You're probably just mishearing it."
I doubt he's mishearing it, as that's pretty common in many forms of English (not just American English, but since I'm American I can say for sure it does exist here in at least some speakers). In fact, I'd say it's more common than most of us would realize. It's something most of us don't notice because it's noncontrastive (there were never any "chree" words to get confused with palatalized /tr/ in "tree"). What may be different is the phonological environments that condition /tr/ to /tSr/.
There was a discussion about this a couple of months ago, and I gave a detailed explanation of when I turn /tr/ ---> [tSr], but basically it happens before my vowels the more front and high they are.
/tr/ may change to [tSr] for me in:
true [tSrM]
tree [tSri]
train [tSren]
metro [mEtSro]
metropolitan [mEtSr@pAl@4In]
/tr/ cannot change to [tSr] for me in:
trend [trEnd]
metropolis [m@trAp@lIs]
trap [træp]
trough [trAf]
truck [trVk]
I do not have /dr/ --> [dZr] palatalization at all, altho I believe some people do. In contrast with my speech, from what I remember Travis palatalizes all /tr/ to [tSr] and all /dr/ to [dZr], but I'll let him comment on that. I should also point out that even in the first class where /tr/ may become [tSr], it's optional and I may not always do that.
Well, actually, there is a slight caveat for that - I don't do that when I form compound words where the /t/, /d/, or /st/ comes from one word and the /r/ comes from another, but I do do it in places where the /tr/, /dr/ or /str/ is between two vowels within a word.
Oops, I didn't write down that I can have /tr/ --> [tSr] in "trick." In fact, lemme just transcribe your whole list so I don't leave anything else out. Again, where I have [tSr] is only where it's possible for me to do so, I may not do it in all cases. The phonological rules explaining these examples are above.
tree [tSr]
trauma [tr]
central [tSr]
trace [tSr]
track [tr]
trick [tSr]
true [tSr]
country [tSr]
trouble [tr]
truth [tSr]
try [tr]
triangle [tr]
destroy [tr]
JL Italy,
What you're describing is standard colloquial slur american english. Those that said they've never heard this pronunciation have just never noticed as it is very common, especially when speaking quickly. You'd hear it all the time if you listened for it. I myself often do change "t" words to a "ch" sound, as you described. My own pronunciations for example:
tree [tSr]
trauma [tr]
central [tSr]
trace [tSr]
track [tSr]
trick [tSr]
true [tSr]
country [tSr]
trouble [tr]
truth [tSr]
try [tSr]
triangle [tr]
destroy [tSr]
Interestingly, I find that the /tr/ --> /tSr/ change is more pronounced in two-syllable words in which the second syllable is unstressed, e.g. country and central.
I just realized that I don't actually say [tSr] in the word "destroy," but that it is an "sh" sound (which I don't know how to transcribe without IPA) but it sounds something like "dishtroi."
I don't pronounce "tr" as /tSr/, even though the T is of course aspirated, and I definitely don't pronounce "dr" as /dZr/. I'm aware that this phenomenon is pretty common in the US though.
I go back and forth between 'tr' and 'chr' for all of those words. I don't think environment has anything to do with it, as it kinda just happens randomly.
''I doubt he's mishearing it, as that's pretty common in many forms of English (not just American English, but since I'm American I can say for sure it does exist here in at least some speakers). In fact, I'd say it's more common than most of us would realize. It's something most of us don't notice because it's noncontrastive (there were never any "chree" words to get confused with palatalized /tr/ in "tree"). What may be different is the phonological environments that condition /tr/ to /tSr/.
Kirk:
I just tried to pronounce two made up words ''chree'' and ''jrug'' and they came out differently from the way I pronounce ''tree'' and ''drug''.
"I go back and forth between 'tr' and 'chr' for all of those words. I don't think environment has anything to do with it, as it kinda just happens randomly."
It has to do with how concious you are when you speak and whether you take the time to ennunciate every syllable clearly.