why do you pronounce "help" as [heop] instead of [help]?
i saw [help] but natives say [heop]. they dont pronounce "l"..
why?
i saw [help] but natives say [heop]. they dont pronounce "l"..
why?
"help"
Native speakers from where? I'm a native speaker and I say the "l".
Guest, where are you located?
Guest, where are you located?
im in canada
i saw no native speaker saying [help].. they all said [heop]
i saw no native speaker saying [help].. they all said [heop]
I'm from Texas... we all say [help]. Actually, the 'l' may be dark... But it is definitely pronounced and definitely not an [o].
(Do you know IPA? If not, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet .) There are some dialects of English, such as Estuary English and African American Vernacular English (AAVE), in which dark (or syllable-final) <l> is pronounced as a vowel, [o], so that "help" would be ['hɛop]. But this is definitely not predominant among native speakers of English: the traditional realization of dark <l> is a velarized alveolar lateral approximant, [ɫ], and many speakers have an intermediate pronunciation such as [ʟ], a velar lateral approximant. If Josh Lalonde is around, he'd certainly be able to tell you more about the situation in Canada: he's from there, and he has /l/-vocalization.
I have very strong /l/-vocalization, but I generally vocalize to an unrounded vowel ([ɯ] or sometimes [ɤ]) or semivowel ([ɰ]) unless preceded by a rounded vowel or consonant to which it will assimilate (as [ʊ] and [w] respectively). Hence to me "help" is [ˈhɜ̩ɯ̯ʔp]. Note that such is global in my dialect, with semivowel pronunciations such as [ɰ] commonly showing up before stressed vowels and word-initially. At the same time, there is often a weak retention of lateralness, resulting in *lateralized* vowels and semivowels being used, particularly before stressed vowels (and also in coda positions in rather careful speech). This results in a weird sound that would probably be perceived as [ɰˡ] commonly being used before stressed vowels and word-initially.
However, my own idiolect is more progressive in that I normally lack lateralness altogether in all positions except in careful or emphatic speech, resulting in the very widespread of non-lateral [ɰ] even when stressed. However, because I natively have a complete lack of [l] or [ɫ] (to the point that they are simply not native sounds to me), I will not infrequently in stressed and word-initial positions use something like [ɣˡ], [ɰʟ̆], or even [ʀˡ] for /l/ through direct fortition of [ɰˡ] for lack of any clear intuitive native "hard" pronunciation of /l/. Consequently, more recently I sometimes use the borrowed foreign sound [l] for such /l/ simply for the sake of being understood by people who do not speak dialects from this genera area; while [l] is unambiguously a foreign sound to me, it is one that I find very easy to actually articulate, unlike [ɫ], and which I already readily use when speaking German.
However, my own idiolect is more progressive in that I normally lack lateralness altogether in all positions except in careful or emphatic speech, resulting in the very widespread of non-lateral [ɰ] even when stressed. However, because I natively have a complete lack of [l] or [ɫ] (to the point that they are simply not native sounds to me), I will not infrequently in stressed and word-initial positions use something like [ɣˡ], [ɰʟ̆], or even [ʀˡ] for /l/ through direct fortition of [ɰˡ] for lack of any clear intuitive native "hard" pronunciation of /l/. Consequently, more recently I sometimes use the borrowed foreign sound [l] for such /l/ simply for the sake of being understood by people who do not speak dialects from this genera area; while [l] is unambiguously a foreign sound to me, it is one that I find very easy to actually articulate, unlike [ɫ], and which I already readily use when speaking German.
This is interesting. I didn't know the symbol ʟ. Is the difference between ʟ and ɫ just that in ʟ you don't raise the tip of your tongue to touch the roof of your mouth? If so, then I realized that I do that very often, so I might use ʟ more than ɫ (and I pronounce "help" with either ɫ or ʟ, and ɫ is only likely if I speak slowly).
Can anyone tell me more about these differences, who also speaks this way, etc. Thanks.
Can anyone tell me more about these differences, who also speaks this way, etc. Thanks.
<<Is the difference between ʟ and ɫ just that in ʟ you don't raise the tip of your tongue to touch the roof of your mouth?>>
Yes. For it to be [ɫ], strictly speaking, there would have to be tongue contact.
Yes. For it to be [ɫ], strictly speaking, there would have to be tongue contact.
>><<Is the difference between ʟ and ɫ just that in ʟ you don't raise the tip of your tongue to touch the roof of your mouth?>>
Yes. For it to be [ɫ], strictly speaking, there would have to be tongue contact.<<
Well, not quite - [ʟ] involves actual dorsal contact, which for me occurs only in very careful speech, and then is more flap-like than stop-like (hence [ʟ̆]); [ɫ] minus coronal articulation is actually something more like [ɰˡ] as such would actually involve no contact with the roof of the mouth and would simply be a semivowel with lateralization through narrowing of the tongue.
Yes. For it to be [ɫ], strictly speaking, there would have to be tongue contact.<<
Well, not quite - [ʟ] involves actual dorsal contact, which for me occurs only in very careful speech, and then is more flap-like than stop-like (hence [ʟ̆]); [ɫ] minus coronal articulation is actually something more like [ɰˡ] as such would actually involve no contact with the roof of the mouth and would simply be a semivowel with lateralization through narrowing of the tongue.
That said, it seems to me like a lot of speakers of North American English dialects *actually* use a sound like [ɰˡ] today rather than actually truly having even [ɫ] in everyday speech, even if they do not have more extensive /l/-vocalization (even though it seems to me like /l/-vocalization is far more common in NAE today than generally reported).
my stepdad is from Memphis TN and around there they do not pronounce the 'l' at all, but it's not substituted with 'o', it's dropped altogether and pronounced / hEp /
same for other words with 'l' + consonant like "bulb" (/ b@b/), "self" (sEf)
same for other words with 'l' + consonant like "bulb" (/ b@b/), "self" (sEf)