What are the reasons adults go to classes rather tna selfstu

What are the reasons adults go to classes rather than self study?

There are some plusses (fluent teacher), but I think there is a culture of lazyness, wanting to be spoon fed as KT said. The thinking that just because Im in a class Im sure to learn the language eventually, even if I don't put in too much effort. Just being there will 'automatically' make it happen. Also there is much ignorance, most people don't even consider the possibility of self study.... What's your opinion?

L'avantage d'apprendre en classe, c'est qu'on est en groupe : l'homme est un animal social. De plus on profite d'une mise en perspective collective : il est utile d'avoir des points de repère pour progresser. Enfin, les langues servent à communiquer : il est plus facile — et bien plus intéressant — de parler aux autres que de dialoguer avec soi... L'échange est à la base de la dynamique de groupe. Pour terminer, les cours collectifs permettent au prof de payer son loyer : tout le monde y trouve son compte.

Yo prefiero aprender solo porque odio a toda la humanidad. Si de alguna manera me metieran en una clase correrían el riesgo de que empezara a cantar durante la clase y no podrían detenerme porque tendría conmigo una pala de azúcar que me serviría de coca cola para abusar de la paciencia del profe.

Exacto, greg.

Además, hay un aspecto importante. Si vas a una clase determinada, y tienes un horario determinado como, por ejemplo, los martes y jueves, te obligas a ir.

Es mucho más organizado, gracias al profesor: haces ejercicios, redacciones, dictados, etc.

Por último, es mucho más agradable hablar con tus compañeros de clase, que hablar solo en tu casa para practicar.

Mine:

There's a lot of politics about this. After I watched Prof. A's videos about language products (namely, things like Teach Yourself, which many Brits should know quite well), I knew what really is going on with learning in real terms. It isn't very easy to get ordinary people set down peacefully and start deciphering everything on their own diligently. As antimoon puts it, it means you are to do sth very different, and different things could hard to accept and get used to.

In real terms, in the Chinese context, many of us actually know there are foreign languages and we have LOADS of books for them, but many often ignore the importance of using audios. My speculation is that, if China could become a huge market of language products and... possibly even sell them overseas, then what China lacks is the classical brand names of Britain, the US and France, etc. They _just_ lack bilingual texts and audiobooks and whatnot, but they aren't short of translations. The main problem with this context is foreign languages hardly _exist_ in actual usage, unlike Europe - where people of many countries and mixed descent speak multiple tongues - the North America - where there are a lot of peoples from elsewhere.

The Chinese might not be able to write good audio courses and possibly even grammar books, but the pool of languages offered isn't in any way smaller than the above countries. What Prof. A is complaining - namely the lack of logical introduction of grammar in *some* products - isn't exactly a problem with Chinese books. Many Chinese recite a lot like their ancestors, but they learn grammar almost like orderly school kids with very old fashioned books.

As I wrote in another post, the Chinese way is often done by rote, and while we do have classes, the scene is somewhat different since people, like many others, do want to get the most from conversation classes when they can't have much real-time practice... though some could be terribly passive. I think, except the book and shyness issues, most things are similar, rather than unique and peculiar.

Let me end this with my stereotype: no, perhaps like some other Chinese, people in my city DON'T really bother with foreign languages. China has business with every country on earth (this is diplomatic), but many HK people tend to be more narrow-minded with languages because all they know are the Anglophone countries and the CJK countries. They have too little trade with many others, and while there are more native speaking teachers here, people are relatively not as 'poor' (no irony intended), and might be much less motivated to memorize. For them, learning by rote is entirely stupid and learning cleverly by many westerners is 'impossible and too expensive'. They aren't a country; even if they were, they would be one of the very few monolingual small countries.

Classes have a schedule prepared for you in the form of a syllabus and they make you keep up, whereas self study it's easy to get bogged down by things you have to do. I keep telling myself I'm going to learn Polish and Hungarian, but I keep having to write papers, create and merge datasets, and read a lot...

Classes provide a kind of discipline that some people need. I'm not against classes, but I have noticed that some people come to class, expect to be entertained and hope that the language will stick. A South
American gentleman I know complained to me about this a few weeks ago.

"Do you know what students do between classes?" Sure, I knew and told him. "Nothing." He was shocked that I knew this, lol.

For beginners or students of an "exotic" language-classes are fine. On the other hand, if you already understand what "conjugation" "genitive"
"Subject" and "indirect object" mean, it may be tiresome to have the prof. teach basic grammatical terms to people who probably won't stick with the class anyway.

Classes, like self-study, are still only as good as one's motivation and determination. Examples: When I took French in high school, I barely passed the first year. The second year I was motivated, worked hard, and was the best in my class. The class method wasn't very good, but my effort and motivation paid off, and that one year gave me a good basis for years to come. (e.g., I can read greg's posts!)

Same thing in Spanish--six month course, best in class, and I was able to use it when I moved to L.A. On the other hand, I took Japanese, with a horrible methodology, and did poorly--but two guys in the class decided to work hard, do extra time with the teacher, and actually achieved some fluency after a year.

I prefer self-study now: no premature output, no horrible input (from your fellow students), and I can pick the materials (and pace) that I'm comfortable with. If you need someone to prod you, a class is okay--but you'll still have to push yourself to take advantage of the class, and work around any negatives in the course methodology.

Only one disadvantage with self-study is that your knowledge of the language is in passive mode. Self-study is good but you need to get out more and use the language as actively as possible. Otherwise achieveing fluency to a comfortable level is a far-fetched reality. My two bits.

>>>Classes have a schedule prepared for you in the form of a syllabus and they make you keep up, whereas self study it's easy to get bogged down by things you have to do. I keep telling myself I'm going to learn Polish and Hungarian, but I keep having to write papers, create and merge datasets, and read a lot...

I'd really really be very glad to see courses I can't take. I find it impossible to learn well in classes I can take, but I can't really imagine how well I can learn in classes I can't. If I could learn Russian in class, it must be a wonderful experience when I'd probably be receiving one-to-one tuition. Well, indeed, you can learn things Swedish and Arabic in my city in this style, but for me it's too much a price to pay. Sorry, Swedes and Arabs, but I just don't see the point of learning them so early...

so, in real terms, I can't even learn Russian without finding materials on my own, primarily in the internet. If I do have the money, I could pay every single cent to hire a tutor who could teach this sort of languages - I could even invite him/her to live with me for (mutual) homestay immersion.

Well, I agree with what most people said already, it's a motivation matter.

1) the classes are already scheduled, so you don't have to make time for them or compel yourself to open the books at home, just attend the classes

2) you've other people like you, wanting to learn the same language for whatever reasons they may have, and you can compare methods of study and/or memorization. You can also motivate each other.
(sure, there's the possibility no one else there takes the language as seriously as you do, or they learn slower, but everything has its down sides...)

3) you can ask the teacher specific questions


I'm sure there are more advantages than the ones I just mentioned, but I still believe classes are better in a beginning stage where almost all information is good information and you learn just by being there (it's true!). But after that stage, some exposure to the language is really more important than classes.

This is also true:
<<but you'll still have to push yourself to take advantage of the class, and work around any negatives in the course methodology.>>

If you guys have read my posts very thoroughly, you'd know who I am to speak of learning autonomously. I just happened to have been forced to be taught, and unlike how at least one Pakistani Canadian finished his high sch. edu., I think my edu. system is traditional - learning by rote - and suppresses creativity. I grew up realizing how little I've read (since I hate it) and how flawed a soul without creativity could be.

Another reason which drove me to have so much reflection was that a lot of classes and even materials have been over-priced. Like how some prominent language guys who write blogs on the net, I think a classroom is a no-no for learning, as if it were a prison. With the internet, and in my own cultural world, tons of very cheap, old-fashioned but usable Chinese books (so, mainly, grammar books and dictionaries), what's the point of learning in a prison? Things might be better if everyone is as active as YOU do outside my country where the studying culture is to stay quiet all the way... unless you are curious and ambitious enough to raise questions, only to annoy some Chinese morons who think you'd waste their time through asking even for clarifications.

If classes should there to be, I wish they were all about methodology and methodology alone. It might sound stupid, even to me, to shadow like marching in a park, definitely I wish classes could at least be critical thinking class where you'd learn about the 'multi-pronged' (à la Farber) approach, the holistic approach (à la Prof. A.), etc. The only indisputable (at least imo) principle is FREE THINKING. Like what Michel Thomas implied (and conveyed), I think a method could work without having dictations, having to recite word lists, grammar rules, conjugations, declensions, characters, having to pay a lot (ah, this doesn't apply to his method!) and, above all, without (at least a lot of) pain.