Is BrE past tense usage going the way of AmE?

Guest   Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:38 pm GMT
Do you think, as a result of American TV/films, that British English speakers are increasingly replacing the present perfect with the simple past. I'm pretty sure I use the simple past now where before I would have used the present perfect, but can't be sure i.e.

'I just did that' instead of 'I have just done that'.

I also wonder if language change is kind of 'contagious, so that if you hear both the traditional way of saying something and a newer way, even if you hear it less frequently, you are more likely to adopt the newer way. Surely that must be the case, or language wouldn't change so readily.
Uriel   Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:46 pm GMT
Even an individual's usage will change over time to fit in with how their peers speak, so why not a whole country? Although there will also be pressure to keep things the same, and Americans and Brits are not "peers" in the same sense that you are peers with your friends and neighbors.
Guest   Sat Aug 09, 2008 6:26 pm GMT
In the US English one can choose between two forms. It's not that the present perfect (like in ''I've just seen it'' ) is forbidden.
Uriel   Sat Aug 09, 2008 6:41 pm GMT
Ture. We use both all the time.
George   Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:32 pm GMT
They can also both be used in Britain.

It's possible they are viewed to have slightly different meanings, though. The only concrete difference regarding British and American usage I know suggesting a different usage is with the use of the word 'yet'. Let me explain...

Consider the two questions, 'Have you done that?' and 'Did you do that?'

The present perfect, 'Have you done...', refers to events which could have happened in the past, but equally are possible at other times (i.e. the present or future).

The simple past, 'Did you do...', refers to things which could only be in the past.

For example, if you are in a hotel and have lost your passport, your mum might ask, 'Have you looked in the draw?'. You might have already looked, but if not you could still do that in the near future. But once you are home (and therefore can no longer look in the draw in your hotel room) your mum might ask, 'Did you look in the draw?'

Therefore, if you want to add 'yet' to the end of the question (which suggests the possibility of it still happening in the future if it hasn't already), it only makes sense to add it to the present perfect, for example, 'Have you looked in the draw yet?'

Some American's seem to use 'yet' with the simple past too. So you might hear 'Did you look in the draw yet?' This is contradictory to me as 'Did you...' suggests it's something which is definitely in the past but 'yet' suggests the possibility of it being in the future. Someone else will have to explain that, as that doesn't really make sense to me. :)
Uriel   Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:07 pm GMT
I think you mean "drawer", not "draw". Although I suppose in the UK, they are often pronounced the same....or should I say "pronunciated". ;P
George   Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:02 am GMT
Oops, my mistake. Yes, I meant 'drawer'. That's a bit silly of me, but you provided an excellent excuse. :)

'Pronunciated'? Who says that?
Guest   Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:04 am GMT
The British?
Guest   Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:34 pm GMT
No. Perhaps it's an American South thing.
Jim Dixon   Sun Aug 10, 2008 5:22 pm GMT
There's "enunciate". I've never heard of "pronunciate".
Uriel   Sun Aug 10, 2008 5:24 pm GMT
Nope, it's a purely an Antimoon thing -- first saw it here -- perhaps we should be paying one of our posters royalties for his/her unique addition to the language. ;)
Matthew   Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:13 pm GMT
George, no one is suggesting that there are not two tenses, the past simple and the perfect, in British English. The issue is whether the past simple can be used in British English for the perfect meaning. The answer is generally no. Did you look in the drawer yet? would be a very odd sentence. My guess is that 0% of English people speak like that.

But, having said that, Wikipedia on one page cites an advertising jingle that is reminiscent of US English, something along the lines of Broadband Just Got Better. Maybe advertising is the first type of language to use newfangled expressions, and then they spread out from there. But it hasn't spread very far from that and similar examples of advertising.
American   Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:25 am GMT
>> Did you look in the drawer yet? would be a very odd sentence.<<

Hmm. That sentence sounds very strange to me. I would say "Have you looked in the drawer yet?"
Terence   Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:51 am GMT
I don't find this question all that strange. There is a difference in meaning when using the simple past or present perfect, at least in this example.

The question "Did you look in the drawer yet?" implies an expectation that the person should have looked in the drawer but probably has not. This type of construction may also imply impatience on behalf of the person asking the question.

The answer: "No I did not do it yet" or "not yet, but I will" would be appropriate in this case. And the person answering the question can expect the next question to be something along the lines of "Why not, that's the first place you should look?"


Have you done it yet? can be just a simple question as to whether or not a person has ever done something in the past.
.
Did you do it yet? can often imply "I am still waiting."

Of course it's far more complicated than that. I just wanted to point out that there are far more uses of the word "yet" than just the ones that foreign learners of English are probably familiar with.
Damian in Edinburgh   Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:48 am GMT
Enunciate? Yes - perfectly acceptable as a verb, as is enunciation as a noun.

Pronunciate? No, sorry - that's not on, but pronunciation is fine.