Why manufactured sentences?

MollyB   Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:05 pm GMT
In one of his talks, Michael Lewis (The English Verb, etc.), claimed that the most popular grammar book in the world is totally made up of manufactured sentences.

He didn't mention the name of that book, but can anyone here tell me which one he was referring to? Any guesses? Probably Murphy? And why would anyone want to create a grammar book of manufactured sentences when we have so many real examples out there?
Johnny   Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:32 pm GMT
<<And why would anyone want to create a grammar book of manufactured sentences when we have so many real examples out there? >>

If a native speaker writes a "manufactured" sentence as an example, how can you distinguish it from a real example, provided it sounds ok?
Are you saying that an author can't write "I have been to LA twice" to illustrate the usage of the present perfect, unless the author really went to LA twice? Because it wouldn't be a real example? LOL
In my opinion, the problem is not real examples, it's that learners need examples in context, and less overgeneralized rules that were only invented to compensate for the lack of examples.
Guest   Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:48 pm GMT
<<And why would anyone want to create a grammar book of manufactured sentences when we have so many real examples out there? >>

Maybe it's easier to make up new sentences, so as to avoid any copyright problems?
Guest   Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:56 pm GMT
X"I have been to LA twice"X

Doesn't sound very native-speakerish to me.
Guest   Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:56 pm GMT
What sounds off?
mac   Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:16 pm GMT
'Manufacture' is the problem word here. 'Created' would mean the same thing but not have the negative implication. Relevant, realistic, and concise 'created' examples can help in learners (and teachers) focus on and identify 'real' language in an effective and efficient way. Why are some teachers so snobbish about this?
By the way; what's unnatural about "I've been to LA twice."?
Have you ever been to the States? -
Well, I've been to LA twice.

As Johny says, context is the key.
MollyB   Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:03 pm GMT
Would you take plastic flowers into the clasrrom if you wanted to teach biology?
Guest   Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:39 am GMT
<<Would you take plastic flowers into the clasrrom if you wanted to teach biology? >>

Back when I was in school, we had a plastic cadaver instead of the real thing.
Guest   Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:27 pm GMT
<<Back when I was in school, we had a plastic cadaver instead of the real thing. >>

And plastic frogs, rats, pigs, etc?
Johnny   Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:57 pm GMT
<<Would you take plastic flowers into the clasrrom if you wanted to teach biology?>>

Yes, if there was no difference between a real flower and a plastic one. And since I don't understand what a plastic sentence is, I don't think I understand the metaphor. But I if I taught astronomy, I would definitely bring plastic black holes to class instead of trying to use the LHC to get some real ones. :D
loopy   Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:35 pm GMT
Every sentence is a manufactured sentence
Guest   Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:32 pm GMT
<<And plastic frogs, rats, pigs, etc? >>

I don't recall any of those. The ligfe-size plastic cadaver had individual removable plastic organs (liver, stomach, brain, kidneys, etc.). Some of these organs came apart so you could see the inner structure.
Guest   Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:43 pm GMT
<<But I if I taught astronomy, I would definitely bring plastic black holes to class instead of trying to use the LHC to get some real ones. :D >>

What does a plastic back hole look like?
MollyB   Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:52 pm GMT
<Every sentence is a manufactured sentence.>

Even the one you just wrote?

Even "It's raining cats and dogs."?

Even "Have you eaten?"
Guest   Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:54 pm GMT
xxSome of these organs came apart so you could see the inner structure. xx

The inner structure of the plastic cadaver. Have you ever held a human heart in your hands?