What makes French a Latin-Germanic mixed language
<<Youre totally wrong. Totally. There are two theories out there, one suggested by Vennemann et the other by Menninger. Menninger suggests that the vigesimal system originates with the Norsemen. Vennemann suggests that there is an even older continental origin of this counting system. As a specialist in this matter, I have to say that Menninger's theories have bascially been rejected by most linguists. The general consensus is that Vennemann's theories are correct. >>
No, I think you're wrong sir. What Leasnam said is right.
You fantasize that all things non-Latin are somehow Celtic. Prove it. Prove the continuity of the supposed Celtic strain.
Anyone with a brain knows the vigesimal system derives from Scandinavian settlers in Normandy where it is first attested in FRENCH (not Bretagne, not Celtic languages) But FRENCH. FRENCH takes it from the Normans Bub.
"Specialist" my Ass
<<In Europe
According to German linguist Theo Vennemann, the vigesimal system in Europe is of Basque (Vasconic) origin and spread from Vasconic languages to other European tongues, such as many Celtic languages, French and Danish.
According to Menninger, the vigesimal system originated with the Normans and spread through them to Western Europe, the evidence being that Celtic languages often use vigesimal counting systems. Others believe that this theory is unlikely, however.
>>
@ We cant count! Wed May 27, 2009 5:02 pm GMT
Please tell me you did NOT use WIKIPEDIA as your Specialist source for this information LOL
The source so debunked on this forum hahaha
always good for a laugh ;)
The Basques also use the vigesimal count system.
<<but at best between 1 and 3%... with an average more likely around 1%>>
No--maybe it's -1%. Yeah. French is so Latin , it is more Latin than Latin itself!!! Ahhhhhh...(Stupid!)
<<The Basques also use the vigesimal count system. >>
Many cultures used it. But French does not get it from Basques. It is in recorded history as coming from the Northern French coastal areas, particularly Normandy since they spoke a form of Oil there.
Why would French take it from dissident Bretons? Makes no sense.
Here are two statements from specialists:-)
Joshqc :
" J'ai suivi 2 cours d'allemand, et j'ai trouvé cette langue aussi difficile que le latin (à cause de sa grammaire). "
guest guest Wed May 27, 2009 12:28 am GMT :
L'allemand est bien PLUS difficile que le latin.
Il est évident que pour un francophone maternel l'Allemand est une langue bien plus difficile que le latin.
Anothe post in Spanish tells the truth:
Guest Wed May 27, 2009 3:45 pm GMT
Yo soy hispanoparlante y el alemán me parece mucho más fácil que el latín. Para saber el significado de una frase latina hay que perder minutos descifrandola, mientras que el alemán es una lengua indoeuropea moderna como el español, las declinaciones son mucho más fáciles que en latín.
Translation:
Guest Wed May 27, 2009 3:45 pm GMT
I am speaking German and I find much easier than Latin. To know the meaning of a Latin phrase to lose minutes decoding, while the German is an Indo-European Language such as Spanish modern, the declines are much easier than in Latin.
____________________________________________--
As many have experienced: it is of absolutely NO use to speak a Romance language if you want to learn Latin. False friends and the lack of respect for the difficult task to learn Latin make the work even harder for a Romance speaker.
By the way - the harsh tone of some francophone contributers seem to indicate that the topic for them is not primarily linguistic but national identity. If scientists like Professor Stéphane Goyette from Ottawa writes articles like “From Latin to Early Romance: A Case of Partial Creolization?” ( in Language Change and Language Contact in Pidgins and Creoles, McWhorter, John (ed.), 103 ff.,) then this is science.
Statements like Latin Eagle Wed May 27, 2009 2:15 am GMT
"Romance languages are very evolved versions of ancient and lovely Latin, just like birds come from dinosaurs. "
are romantic 19th century poetry...
Ouest, what is your native language, just out of interest?
For further reading:
The emergence of the Romance languages from Latin: A case for creolization effects.
Author: Goyette, Stéphane.
Abstract: This thesis aims to ascertain whether or not the phenomenon known as creolization played a role in the emergence of the Romance language from Latin. Creolization and normal language change differ in terms of their respective effects upon inflectional morphology: normal language change yields morphological loss and morphological creation through grammaticization. Creolization cause inflectional morphology to be severely reduced. Thus, the hypothesis tested would predict that the transition from Latin to Romance would involve an unusually high degree of morphological loss and an absence of creation of new inflectional morphology. Comparison with another language, whose external history precludes its having been creolized, Greek, is used to ascertain whether Romance shows an unusual pattern of morphological loss.. Comparison is first made between the fate of Latin nominal declension in Romance and Classical Greek declension in Modern Greek. It is found that declension was almost wholly eliminated in Romance but is preserved largely unscathed in Modern Greek. A similar fate befell adjectival declension. Likewise, the synthetic comparatives and superlatives of Latin did not survive into Romance, but those of Classical Greek survived into Modern Greek. Comparison of the two verb systems yields a similar result: whereas Romance severely reduced Latin verbal morphology (most importantly, the passive), Modern Greek has preserved the greater part of Classical Greek verbal morphology unscathed. If one adds to this a complete absence of any morphological creation in the emerging Romance languages, one is forced to conclude that creolization must indeed have played a role in the history of Romance. In conclusion, some examination is made of other alleged instances of creole-influenced language change, all of which are found wanting: some suggestions are made regarding methodology. Likewise, the implications of this conclusion, to linguists and especially Romance linguists, are presented.
URI:
http://hdl.handle.net/10393/9059
Date: 2000
<<By the way - the harsh tone of some francophone contributers seem to indicate that the topic for them is not primarily linguistic but national identity. >>
Genau ;)
<<"Romance languages are very evolved versions of ancient and lovely Latin, just like birds come from dinosaurs. "
are romantic 19th century poetry... >>
Italian = a turkey
Spanish = a chicken
French = an osterich
Rumanian = a penguin
Portuguese = duck
lovely.
I'm French-speaking from Belgium, and I thought Latin was much easier than German.
J'ai suivi 4 cours de latin à l'université et je crois que le latin est plus facile à apprendre que l'allemand. Les grammaires (des 2 langues) sont difficiles mais le degré de ressemblance lexicale entre le français et le latin fait du latin une langue plus facile à apprendre, à mon avis.
I learned Latin Thu May 28, 2009 12:08 am GMT
I'm French-speaking from Belgium, and I thought Latin was much easier than German.
Moi aussi Thu May 28, 2009 1:40 am GMT
J'ai suivi 4 cours de latin à l'université et je crois que le latin est plus facile à apprendre que l'allemand. Les grammaires (des 2 langues) sont difficiles mais le degré de ressemblance lexicale entre le français et le latin fait du latin une langue plus facile à apprendre, à mon avis.
__________________________________-
I know many native speakers of French who speak fluently German as a second language. You state that Learning Latin is more easy than Learning German for you - so you speak Latin fluently? What lever did you achieve in Latin?
I had to take Latin for my degree programme. I'm not sure if you can tell or not, but I learned English too! I was just saying that for me, Latin was easier than German. Does that mean I run around the streets screaming things to people in Latin? No (unless I've drank too much). Ouest, instead of learning about French's origins, learn a sense of humour and relax a bit.
I know lots of people who speak russian as a second language. That doesnt make russian easier or harder than any other language, nor does it say russian is better than another language. I think some of the people here who hear that some francos learn latin a bit easier because of vocab similarity are somehow thinking that they mean latin is better than german.... calm down guys.
I wonder from where do the people who claim Latin is easier get the input to become fluent in Latin (both writen and spoken). Do they communicate with Julius Caesar or something?
<<I wonder from where do the people who claim Latin is easier get the input to become fluent in Latin (both writen and spoken). Do they communicate with Julius Caesar or something? >>
No, they are just lying and exaggerating to prove their agenda. Take what they claim with a grain of salt.
If you require research on this question, do it independently. Do not trust testimonials from this politically charged thread.