Pour ceux qui ne parlent pas ma langue

jella   Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:18 pm GMT
French and Spanish people get a life, you're disgusting
Francophone   Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:20 pm GMT
The French president: "Arabic is the language of future"

The French government is strongly advocating the teaching of Arabic language and civilization in French schools. Not surprising, considering the number of Arabs and Muslims in France, and the unctuous deference with which they are treated by officials, beginning notably with Nicolas Sarkozy, who cannot praise enough the splendor of Arabic contributions to the world.

The French National Assembly was the scene of a meeting earlier this month of the first Conference on the Teaching of Arabic Language and Culture, attended by a variety of interested parties. There was much wearisome blather about the need for "dialogue."

In his message to the participants, French President Nicolas Sarkozy called Arabic the "language of the future, of science and of modernity," and expressed the hope that "more French people share in the language that expresses great civilizational and spiritual values."

"We must invest in the Arabic language (because) to teach it symbolizes a moment of exchange, of openness and of tolerance, (and it) brings with it one of the oldest and most prestigious civilizations of the world. It is in France that we have the greatest number of persons of Arabic and Muslim origin. Islam is the second religion of France," Sarkozy reminded his listeners.

He proceeded to enumerate the various "advances in terms of diversity," the increase in Muslim sections of cemeteries, the training of imams and chaplains and the appointments of ministers of diverse backgrounds.

"France is a friend of Arabic countries. We are not seeking a clash between the East and West," he affirmed, emphasizing the strong presence of Arab leaders at the founding summit of the Union for the Mediterranean, last July 13. "The Mediterranean is where our common hopes were founded. Our common sea is where the principal challenges come together: durable development, security, education and peace," added the French president.
Guest   Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:30 pm GMT
Francophone   Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:35 pm GMT
The Decline of French.

The 12th Summit of the International Organization of Francophonie wrapped up on Sunday in the capital city of Canada’s French-speaking Quebec province. During the three-day event, leaders from 55 member countries (including Belgium, Switzerland and Canada – though in these countries French is only spoken by a minority of the population) and 13 observer nations held talks on wide-ranging issues. The financial crisis stole the limelight. The 70 nations and regional governments also pledged to help cut global greenhouse gas emissions in half by 2050. They said they would draft a “concerted francophone position” for upcoming climate change conferences in Poznan in December and Copenhagen in 2009. However, while the French-speaking politicians talk about (financial) bubbles and (greenhouse) gases, their language is dying, both globally and within France itself.

I have discovered an informative new English-language website for anyone interested in the French language. Called The World-Wide Decline of French, and administered by a gentleman named Unfrench, it chronicles the decline of the French language and the ineffectiveness of costly and conscientious programs initiated by the French government in its misbegotten effort to rescue and promote the language of Molière.

How can Third World countries that speak a rather limited French, and that have more urgent economic problems to worry about, save the language? How can schools teach French if the overwhelming number of students demand Arabic or Spanish or Chinese? Above all, how can French compete with English?

The only factors that propel a language from mere street talk to the level of a great cultural asset are the men of genius who write great literature, the poets who open new avenues of expression, leading to a higher level of consciousness, the artists, musicians, essayists, playwrights, actors, journalists, commentators, teachers, scholars, etc... all of whom use, manipulate and enrich the language with individuality, and at the same time with national pride.

Such men are inspired and inspire others. But how to bring about a return to cultural excellence in this time of spiritual impoverishment? How to generate inspiration? Lawrence Auster, who was responsible for my discovering the site, has some suggestions:

To paraphase Obama's "spreading the wealth," what they're doing now is trying to save French by "spreading the French," instead of by elevating it. Meaning, improve the quality of French among the French people. Teach great literature. Instill love of France and French culture, so that the French have something worth talking about again. Make Muslims unwelcome and start pushing them out, thus re-invigorating French identity. Dismantle the EU and the entire managerial, liberal, egalitarian, and Eurabian agenda and consciousness, which kill the mind, turn language into a PC tool to conceal instead of a tool to communicate truth. Bring back belief in truth, so that there will be things worth saying again, worth using language well for. Focus schools on 17th century French literature with its clarté. Make clarté, love of truth, love of France, love of the historic West, and, even better, belief in Christianity, which is all about TRUTH, the center of French culture.

“Clarté” means “clarity”. French was always said to be the language of “clarté”. There is also the implication of light because a language that is clear sheds light on a problem. The old saying went "ce qui n'est pas clair n'est pas français" (what is not clear is not French).

Once French nation and culture and its Western identity have been saved and revived, and once the French used by the French people has been improved and purified, then start to make French attractive again to other Westerners. Forget about trying to make it attractive to Third Worlders. As you suggested from the articles at that site, such efforts do not avail. Accept the fact that France cannot have an empire again, that trying to have a Muslim empire only Islamizes France, but see that French can still be saved, because the greatness and beauty of French can still have a great appeal to fellow white Westerners. Thus encourage French as a universal second language in the West alongside English. It won't be as widespread as English, of course, but the unique beauty of French and the "high" of speaking it gives French an appeal that English can't match.

What do you think?

I responded that I agreed completely with his ideas but didn’t think it would happen. However, I added that my more fatalistic view is not to be taken as a prediction. One never knows how things will evolve. After all the Renaissance was ushered in by disastrous events. That could happen again.

I would add a couple of ideas to what Larry Auster said. First, start teaching LATIN again, and even Greek, if you can find students willing to make the effort. Second, STOP teaching French children the “global” method of reading. This language-destroying method has had a demonstrably disastrous effect on the way the formerly well-educated French spell, conjugate verbs, and express themselves. This applies to the teaching of foreign languages as well. Third, STOP teaching French to foreigners via the “global” (or “audio-visual-lingual”) method. This method can lead to chaos. Language study for older students has to be structured and grammar has to be taught systematically, whether the students like it or not. Then it is easy to make the transition to structured speech, and eventually to everyday speech. (Note: the final step to authentic everyday speech at normal speed is never easy.) Foreigners are not learning French any better than the French are learning their own language.

If anyone has other suggestions, please let us know.

Of course, the very young learn languages quickly, and grammar can be put off, but not eliminated. The illustration of Jemima Puddle-Duck in French (Jemima Cane-de-flaque) is from Barnes and Noble. Such a translation can be used for both French children and those learning French.

Remember when Winnie The Pooh came out in Latin (Winnie Ille Pooh)? It was a huge success and it sold out immediately. Everyone thought that a new era in the teaching of Latin had arrived. But today, the downward spiral of education having taken its toll, Latin is rarely taught, although it hasn't entirely disappeared. Winnie Ille Pooh may be a good example of making Latin “fun”, but it also shows that making something “fun” does not save it. Quite the contrary.

A return to the teaching of the classics is one very good way of re-stimulating interest in the languages of Europe, including German and Castilian Spanish, which is very difficult – has anyone tackled Don Quijote in Spanish? The original version used to be read in American universities, but that would be very rare today. However a solid background in Latin would facilitate access to the great literatures of Western Europe. (Note: I do not know Latin. I studied it too late in life to retain it. I did go a bit further in Greek, but I would need supervision and grammar review if I were to go back to reading Homer. Not being classically trained is a major handicap, IMHO.)

As for German, it was quickly phased out (again, not entirely) after 1968. Nobody was willing to make the effort. Dumbing down the mind, and jacking up the grades became the unexpressed and inexpressible goals of education.

Finally, what would happen if we suddenly began making intellectual demands on hedonistic young people, or people from different cultures who simply do not have the background to do rigorous work? Would there be violence? Is dumbing down a defense against revolution? Would it be better to just close the schools? I have often thought so, but people turn in disgust from such suggestions. They say "education is our future." That’s what we all fear, isn’t it?
French decline   Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:47 pm GMT
Jason Magder,
The Gazette
Published: Tuesday, December 04

The latest census figures are bad news for French both within Canada and Quebec, says a French-language rights group.

Jean Dorion, the president of Soci騁 St. Jean Baptiste said he is disheartened that French speakers in this province are losing ground both to immigrants and English speakers, in figures released this morning by
Statistics Canada.

In Montreal, for example, the number of francophones fell to below half of the overall population.

"We're not going in the right direction," Dorion said. "The numbers seem to confirm some trends we have seen in daily life in Montreal, where more English is being spoken. In the workforce in particular, we have seen a lot of young people who were obliged to go to school in French are attending CEGEP in English."

Dorion said while most of the decline of the French language in Quebec is due to immigration, he said the Quebec government can have a policy of opening its doors to immigrants while increasing the French profile. He
said Quebec should make it compulsory for those attending French high school to attend a French CEGEP.

"Immigration could play in the favour of the French language," Dorion said.

"But the legislation in place doesn't help."

Dorion said he's also concerned with the census figures that show that French-speakers have once again declined in comparison to the overall Canadian population. That decline has been steady since the 1950s. However,

Dorion said the numbers released today are particularly alarming.

"The decrease is constant," he said.

"When I was a child, the first time I took note of Census, francophones made up 32 per cent of the Canadian population, now it's 22.1 per cent. That means the political weight of francophones will eventually become insignificant. We will soon fall below 20 per cent, that's a psychological barrier."
Hispanican   Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:29 am GMT
SPANISH IS IN GREAT DANGER OF DISINTEGRATION

Films for the Humanities and Sciences, based in Princeton, New Jersey, performs an invaluable service in providing us with a vast array of informative films, useful in teaching and fascinating as documentaries. It has issued a six-part series, "Biography of the Spanish Language." It is not aimed at specialists, who might argue with many of the statements, but at the broad public; indeed, it began as a series of programs for Mexican television and possibly schools. To attract a wide public it uses the tricks of the trade: noisy background music, lighting effects, and slapstick humor. The problem is that these effects tend to drown out the speech, the subject of the series.

It treats language as the expression of a culture and its history, with literature, especially poetry, as its elevated form as opposed to the vernacular. It views Spanish from a Mexican perspective, which is understandable, since Mexico has more inhabitants than any other country. However, it mentions only briefly other Latin American forms of Spanish, with not a word about Catalan or Portuguese. The first film deals with the history of Spanish down to its introduction in the Americas. The conquistadores appear as a violent, rather stupid lot, while Indian life is romanticized. There are pictures of beautiful colonial cities, but no credit is given to the Spanish civil authorities who planned them. The Inquisition is condemned, while the missionaries,are praised. The Jesuits are lauded for having promoted the cause of independence in the colonial period. are there any books on that subject?

THE SECTION ON MODERN COLLOQUIAL SPANISH, ESPECIALLY THAT SPOKEN ON TELEVISION, IS DISCOURAGING. IT IS OFTEN DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND, EVEN FOR PEOPLE FROM OTHER SPANISH-SPEAKING COUNTRIES. THE FILM MAKES LIGHT OF THIS, BUT IT IS A PATHETIC DECLINE FROM THE BEAUTIFUL SPANISH PROMOTED BY THE SPANISH ACADEMY. EVEN SOME LATIN AMERICAN STUDENTS AT STANFORD USE A SLANG UNKNOWN TO ME AND OFTEN TO OTHER LATIN AMERICANS. SOME WAISERS DEFEND THE VARIANTS AS THE EXPRESSION OF A PEOPLE, BUT THEY SEEM TO HAVE A ROMANTIC LONGING FOR THE GOOD OLD TIMES WHEN THE INHABITANTS OF ONE VALLEY COULD NOT UNDERSTAND THOSE OF THE NEXT. JOHN WONDER COMPLAINS ABOUT THIS, AND ABOUT THE MACHINE-GUN LIKE SPEECH OF YOUNG PEOPLE. INDEED, IN THE BOGOTA I FIRST KNEW, THE "ATHENS OF AMERICA," THE INTELLECTUAL ELITE SPOKE A VERY BEAUTIFUL SPANISH. NOW SCOLA REBROADCASTS NEWS PROGRAMS FROM CALI. THE YOUNG WOMEN ANNOUNCERS ON THE PROGRAM RATTLE OFF SPANISH IS HIGH-PITCHED VOICES WITHOUT THE INTONATION INDICATING COMPREHENSION. THE DECLINE OF SPANISH IN COLOMBIA IS A TRAGEDY, ADMITTEDLY INSIGNIFICANT IN COMPARISON WITH THE MAJOR TRAGEDY OF LIFE THERE.

The influence of politics on language may be baneful in many parts of the Spanish-speaking world. In 1932 I went to Barcelona to study Catalan with Pompeu Fabra, revered as the father of contemporary Catalan studies; a university is named after him. The atmosphere was very pleasant. Then came the Civil War and Franco, who suppressed Catalan autonomy and the Catalan language. The backlash has been distressing. I am probably the only surviving pupil of Pompeu Fabra, and I thought that would earn general respect. Nevertheless, a young Catalan has accused me of insulting his language, while others have charged that I am a victim of Spanish propaganda. This mentality is counterproductive, endangering Barcelona's leading place as a publisher of books in Spanish. One WAISer tells me she has an American friend who speaks very good Spanish and is married to a Barcelona businessman. They live in New York, but he does not want his children to learn Spanish. Does he realize that he is closing the door to opportunities which would open to them in the vast Spanish-speaking world?

Ronald Hilton - 4/15/01

http://www.stanford.edu/group/wais/Language/language_mexandothers41501.html
Hispanican   Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:31 am GMT
blanc   Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:55 am GMT
The 12th Summit of the International Organization of Francophonie wrapped up on Sunday in the capital city of Canada’s French-speaking Quebec province. During the three-day event, leaders from 55 member countries (including Belgium, Switzerland and Canada – though in these countries French is only spoken by a minority of the population) and 13 observer nations held talks on wide-ranging issues. The financial crisis stole the limelight. The 70 nations and regional governments also pledged to help cut global greenhouse gas emissions in half by 2050. They said they would draft a “concerted francophone position” for upcoming climate change conferences in Poznan in December and Copenhagen in 2009. However, while the French-speaking politicians talk about (financial) bubbles and (greenhouse) gases, their language is dying, both globally and within France itself.



I have discovered an informative new English-language website for anyone interested in the French language. Called The World-Wide Decline of French, and administered by a gentleman named Unfrench, it chronicles the decline of the French language and the ineffectiveness of costly and conscientious programs initiated by the French government in its misbegotten effort to rescue and promote the language of Molière.

How can Third World countries that speak a rather limited French, and that have more urgent economic problems to worry about, save the language? How can schools teach French if the overwhelming number of students demand Arabic or Spanish or Chinese? Above all, how can French compete with English?

The only factors that propel a language from mere street talk to the level of a great cultural asset are the men of genius who write great literature, the poets who open new avenues of expression, leading to a higher level of consciousness, the artists, musicians, essayists, playwrights, actors, journalists, commentators, teachers, scholars, etc... all of whom use, manipulate and enrich the language with individuality, and at the same time with national pride.

Such men are inspired and inspire others. But how to bring about a return to cultural excellence in this time of spiritual impoverishment? How to generate inspiration? Lawrence Auster, who was responsible for my discovering the site, has some suggestions:

To paraphase Obama's "spreading the wealth," what they're doing now is trying to save French by "spreading the French," instead of by elevating it. Meaning, improve the quality of French among the French people. Teach great literature. Instill love of France and French culture, so that the French have something worth talking about again. Make Muslims unwelcome and start pushing them out, thus re-invigorating French identity. Dismantle the EU and the entire managerial, liberal, egalitarian, and Eurabian agenda and consciousness, which kill the mind, turn language into a PC tool to conceal instead of a tool to communicate truth. Bring back belief in truth, so that there will be things worth saying again, worth using language well for. Focus schools on 17th century French literature with its clarté. Make clarté, love of truth, love of France, love of the historic West, and, even better, belief in Christianity, which is all about TRUTH, the center of French culture.

“Clarté” means “clarity”. French was always said to be the language of “clarté”. There is also the implication of light because a language that is clear sheds light on a problem. The old saying went "ce qui n'est pas clair n'est pas français" (what is not clear is not French).

Once French nation and culture and its Western identity have been saved and revived, and once the French used by the French people has been improved and purified, then start to make French attractive again to other Westerners. Forget about trying to make it attractive to Third Worlders. As you suggested from the articles at that site, such efforts do not avail. Accept the fact that France cannot have an empire again, that trying to have a Muslim empire only Islamizes France, but see that French can still be saved, because the greatness and beauty of French can still have a great appeal to fellow white Westerners. Thus encourage French as a universal second language in the West alongside English. It won't be as widespread as English, of course, but the unique beauty of French and the "high" of speaking it gives French an appeal that English can't match.

What do you think?

I responded that I agreed completely with his ideas but didn’t think it would happen. However, I added that my more fatalistic view is not to be taken as a prediction. One never knows how things will evolve. After all the Renaissance was ushered in by disastrous events. That could happen again.

I would add a couple of ideas to what Larry Auster said. First, start teaching LATIN again, and even Greek, if you can find students willing to make the effort. Second, STOP teaching French children the “global” method of reading. This language-destroying method has had a demonstrably disastrous effect on the way the formerly well-educated French spell, conjugate verbs, and express themselves. This applies to the teaching of foreign languages as well. Third, STOP teaching French to foreigners via the “global” (or “audio-visual-lingual”) method. This method can lead to chaos. Language study for older students has to be structured and grammar has to be taught systematically, whether the students like it or not. Then it is easy to make the transition to structured speech, and eventually to everyday speech. (Note: the final step to authentic everyday speech at normal speed is never easy.) Foreigners are not learning French any better than the French are learning their own language.

If anyone has other suggestions, please let us know.

Of course, the very young learn languages quickly, and grammar can be put off, but not eliminated. The illustration of Jemima Puddle-Duck in French (Jemima Cane-de-flaque) is from Barnes and Noble. Such a translation can be used for both French children and those learning French.

Remember when Winnie The Pooh came out in Latin (Winnie Ille Pooh)? It was a huge success and it sold out immediately. Everyone thought that a new era in the teaching of Latin had arrived. But today, the downward spiral of education having taken its toll, Latin is rarely taught, although it hasn't entirely disappeared. Winnie Ille Pooh may be a good example of making Latin “fun”, but it also shows that making something “fun” does not save it. Quite the contrary.

A return to the teaching of the classics is one very good way of re-stimulating interest in the languages of Europe, including German and Castilian Spanish, which is very difficult – has anyone tackled Don Quijote in Spanish? The original version used to be read in American universities, but that would be very rare today. However a solid background in Latin would facilitate access to the great literatures of Western Europe. (Note: I do not know Latin. I studied it too late in life to retain it. I did go a bit further in Greek, but I would need supervision and grammar review if I were to go back to reading Homer. Not being classically trained is a major handicap, IMHO.)

As for German, it was quickly phased out (again, not entirely) after 1968. Nobody was willing to make the effort. Dumbing down the mind, and jacking up the grades became the unexpressed and inexpressible goals of education.

Finally, what would happen if we suddenly began making intellectual demands on hedonistic young people, or people from different cultures who simply do not have the background to do rigorous work? Would there be violence? Is dumbing down a defense against revolution? Would it be better to just close the schools? I have often thought so, but people turn in disgust from such suggestions. They say "education is our future." That’s what we all fear, isn’t it?