Battle of Teutoburg Forest

Ouest   Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:35 am GMT
exactly 2000 years ago, the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest (described as clades Variana by Roman historians) took place. An alliance of Germanic tribes led by Arminius, the son of Segimer of the Cherusci, ambushed and destroyed three Roman legions led by Publius Quinctilius Varus.


In your opinion, what were the consequences of the battle of the Teutoburg Forest for the languages in Europe? Would the languages spoken in Europe be other ones or modified if Varus and his Romans had won?
Quest   Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:14 pm GMT
The Battle of Teutoburg Battle (which actually took place near Osnabrück) had a big strategic significance, the Roman army had to withdraw from the river Elbe to a more reliable defence line, i.e. the Rhine.

As a result there are no Roman ruins in Hamburg, unlike Rhineland.

As far as languages are concerned I don't think the consequences were that big. The Western Rhineland area, from Cologne to Trier, was more intensively colonized by Romans than any other part of their Empire, but even so the area was mainly populated by Germans, and has remained German speaking cause the people's language always prevails in the end.

It must be kept in mind that the Roman military borderline between Gallia and Germania was merely administrative, it didn't reflect the linguistic situation. So-called "Gallia Belgica" was made up from Gaulish tribes who were often more Germanic than Celtic, and there used to be also celtic people beyond the Rhine.

Arguably, the Battle of Teutoburg Forest brought Germanic forces closer to what are currently Southern Germany, Switzerland and Austria. Probably the regions south of the Danube would speak some Romance language otherwise, maybe it made some Germanic influence stronger on rench, but that's just hollow speculation.
Ancient   Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:00 pm GMT
Has somebody used a metal detector in that area ?

It has to be cool things under the soil.
G7   Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:50 am GMT
The battle field has been found by a British hobby archeologist - he used a metal detector, 6000 relicts have been found since, a museum was opened. Some historians say that this battle was a turning point in European history.
Üser   Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:23 pm GMT
Arminius is kind of a German national hero.
Quest   Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:37 pm GMT
"Some historians say that this battle was a turning point in European history."

For sure it was. Armin/Herrmann was previously an officer in the Roman army. He knew their tactics very well, he knew how they could be defeated when carefully choosing the battlefield.
Furthermore for the first time in Germania Armin set up a federation of various Germanic tribes (which will prove very successful with other federations in the following centuries, the Alemannen and especially the Franks).

From that epochal moment, Germanic nations knew they could become a likely and downright legitimate competitor and heir to the Roman power.

The concept of a 'Holy Roman Empire of the Germanic Nation' started from that moment on.
European   Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:05 am GMT
In your opinion, what were the consequences of the battle of the Teutoburg Forest for the languages in Europe? Would the languages spoken in Europe be other ones or modified if Varus and his Romans had won?
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I think that all Europe would speak Latin or some kind of successor of Latin if Arminius and his confederation of various Germanic tribes hadn´t defeated Varus and the proud Roman empire. People in Germany, England, Austria and Swizzerland etc. would speak some kind of Romance like Walloon, French, Spanish, or Italian. In Spain, France and Italy on the other hand, we would speak a more pure Latin without all these articles an with synthetic grammar like the Greeks.
Réponse   Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:35 am GMT
"In your opinion, what were the consequences of the battle of the Teutoburg Forest for the languages in Europe?"

Zero consequence.
Réponse   Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:50 am GMT
"I read that German archeologists have recently found evidence of Roman encampments in Germany --in Saxony and Hamburg -- dating to as late as the 4th century A.D."

This is right. The "Roman Limes" was in no way a military wall, it was the formal limit of imperial authority. But it didn't prevent crowds of Germans to immigrate into the Empire as long as they had peaceful intentions, fleeing the growing Slavic and Magyar pressure in the East. Nor did it prevent Roman armies to do reconnoissances deep into Germanic territory.


"The Romans still hung around in the region for about two more centuries."

But those "Romans" could as well be actually Germanic warrior formely serving for Rome, and who had made Roman practices their own as for military technologies and camp building.
European   Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:49 pm GMT
Réponse Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:35 am GMT
"In your opinion, what were the consequences of the battle of the Teutoburg Forest for the languages in Europe?"

Zero consequence.
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Ceasar´s conquest of the Gauls and the defeat of Vercigetorix was important for Romance, how would the victory of Arminius be of no importance???
Guest   Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:53 pm GMT
Germania was of no vaule for Rome.
Guest   Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:04 pm GMT
The battle of hastings has also had great consequences since the future world lingua franca would be a very different language had the outcome been different.
dino   Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:18 am GMT
The most important event for the future lingua franca was the meteorite which hit the earth 65 million years ago. If it hadn't hit the earth the dinosaurs wouldn't have been wiped out and the earth would still be under their domain and humans would have been subjugated by now, because don't forget the dinosaurs would have evolved to become intelligent enough to outwit us and eat us up.
CID   Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:49 am GMT
<<The most important event for the future lingua franca was the meteorite which hit the earth 65 million years ago. >>

It wasn't a meteorite. It was Lucifer. I know. I was there.
Ouest   Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:03 am GMT
CID Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:49 am GMT
<<The most important event for the future lingua franca was the meteorite which hit the earth 65 million years ago. >>

__

Did science found proofs at last for the meteorite hypothesis or do you just repeat popular theories?