Does Dutch commonly use jij/je for the general pronoun

CID   Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:01 pm GMT
Hello all,

My question is whether Dutch uses jij/je/u as a general pronoun similar to English "you" ("one") as in "you never can tell what a day will bring forth"

I just heard a song in Dutch which contains the line "...die je normaal aleen in films ziet" which suggests it may.

Thanks
12345   Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:07 pm GMT
Hmm.. Guus Meeuwis - Het is een nacht??

And what you say is correct, just to translate you English sentence:

Je kan nooit zeggen wat een dag zal (voort)brengen.
CID   Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:15 pm GMT
<<Hmm.. Guus Meeuwis - Het is een nacht?? >>

Yes! That's the song.

Wonderful. And Thank you!
CommonAswhole   Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:16 pm GMT
In Flemish/actually Belgian Dutch (not the dialect), people often prefer to use 'gij/ge' instead of 'jij/je'. This is a Brabantic thing, for people in the Dutch province of North Brabant also have this tendency.
12345   Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:18 pm GMT
More examples:

Soms zie je weleens wolken in de lucht die je tot vreemde gedachten brengen.

Gewoonlijk staar je naar de klok, maar niet in dit geval, vanaf nu ga je staren naar een huis. (I know it's a stupid sentence)
12345   Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:20 pm GMT
«CommonAswhole Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:16 pm GMT
In Flemish/actually Belgian Dutch (not the dialect), people often prefer to use 'gij/ge' instead of 'jij/je'. This is a Brabantic thing, for people in the Dutch province of North Brabant also have this tendency. »

Guus Meeuwis is actually from North Brabant, but fortunately he sings in Dutch and not in his dialect. :D
blank   Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:06 pm GMT
Alles is goed,Nederlands is mooie taal (sorry for my poor knowledge of Dutch). "Du"("Thou" in English) was used instead of "jij (ghy)" in Middle Dutch .
CommonAswhole   Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:53 pm GMT
Du has indeed been used in some Middle Dutch dialects. Middle Dutch is all about dialects and no real Dutch language. I'm no expert with dialects, but today you'll notice people from Eastern Limburg using 'du' while western Limburger use 'gij'.
Western Flemish people like to use 'jie' more often, but I have also heard 'ghi'

But when Flemish don't speak dialect, they all seem to like to use the 'gij' instead of 'jij'. Most Flemish otherwise feel they're immitating Dutch, it's doesn't come natural for us actually to use 'jij' in our general language. You won't hear this on the news or by tv show hosts, but when you watch Flemish soaps, sitcom, etc... you'll notice the 'gij' being prominent.
It was not always like this. They used to employ ABN (Algemeen Beschaafd Nederlands) once, but it came over to us like some Esperanto of our language, mockingly called 'Verkavelingsvlaams' ('Subdivision Flemish', like Soviet buildings, characterless). It's just a reaction for the Flemish identity. Fewer Flemish are ashamed to be themselves anymore (and I also mean the majority that still believes in Belgium).
12345   Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:11 pm GMT
In the north of the Netherlands, where I live 'du' is still used :).
CID   Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:59 pm GMT
<<people from Eastern Limburg using 'du' while western Limburger use 'gij'.
Western Flemish people like to use 'jie' more often, but I have also heard 'ghi'
>>

How did the "g" in "gij" evolve? Old Low Frankish was "gi" but was this "g" outspoken like Old English "ge" /je/ or was it hard? Old Germanic has "jiz"
Kendra   Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:06 pm GMT
People from Antwerp use jij and not gij. The rest of Belgium is starting to copy this ''fad''.
CommonAswhole   Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:10 pm GMT
I use 'gij' as well as 'jij'. I'm from Ekeren (near Antwerp city).
CommonAswhole   Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:23 pm GMT
I forgot to mention that I'm not one who wants to differentiate from Dutch people by being provincialist, but I'm convinced that growing toward Dutch people also means you have to show some pride and be yourself. Dutch people like to make fun of our inferiority complex and I cannot allow that aspect to be part of Flemish culture.
This slave mentality is also often seen when opinionists marginalize Flanders because they think it's only part of some stiff extreme-right Flemish nationalist who dress like it was still the 20s.

Many people think that you have to be ashamed of Flanders if you're left wing.

Douglas De Koninck, lastly, wrote a column in De Morgen that is supposed to be satire, but in fact is a perfect example of slave mentality of many (sadly mostly left wing) Flemings. He even thinks that the name 'Flanders' is bad for our image.
Read about it here if you can read Dutch: http://forum.politics.be/showthread.php?t=120347

Further you have stupid conservative idiots claiming the right of supporting the Flemish cause.
Just look at them. They don't realize they're harming that were they stand for. They must be the only young real catholics Flanders still has.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3124/2853235755_708d53c9ba.jpg?v=0
http://www.schamper.ugent.be/files/imagecache/preview/images/online-kvhv.jpg

They won't ever gain popularity and they don't realize their propaganda is just bad marketing. They're alienating left wing flamingants and feeding the leftist belgitude syndrome.
blank   Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:41 pm GMT
Northern Low Saxon use "du" and "ji"(plural)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Low_Saxon
blank   Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:56 pm GMT
What is a problem with Dutch and Flemish? Some Walloons speak French,but they call themselves "francophones",not "wallonophones".Learn unity from them.