So, there you are.
The problem with flags representing languages...
The flag represents a country, and the meaning is "The following will be understood by a citizen of that country".
So, if you are American and you see the British flag, you will think "oh, I think I understand the language in that country! I'll try to read." - and the same goes for a Brit who notices a US flag. If you are an Australian tourist who knows Spanish and you see a German flag, a Mexican flag, and a Brazilian flag, what flag will you choose? The Mexican one, because it's a country where you suppose you would understand.
It's not
Language => Flag => Country
But:
Language => Country => Flag
So it actually makes sense. Clear?
So, if you are American and you see the British flag, you will think "oh, I think I understand the language in that country! I'll try to read." - and the same goes for a Brit who notices a US flag. If you are an Australian tourist who knows Spanish and you see a German flag, a Mexican flag, and a Brazilian flag, what flag will you choose? The Mexican one, because it's a country where you suppose you would understand.
It's not
Language => Flag => Country
But:
Language => Country => Flag
So it actually makes sense. Clear?
It's actually supposed to be
Flag => Country => Main or Official Language
but that's not always the case in practice.
Flag => Country => Main or Official Language
but that's not always the case in practice.
<<Can anyone of you show me a large influential website that uses flags for languages instead of language names? >>
http://www.conlanger.com/
especially here:
http://www.conlanger.com/cbb/viewtopic.php?t=837
http://www.conlanger.com/
especially here:
http://www.conlanger.com/cbb/viewtopic.php?t=837
<<In my opinion, most of the Europeans know by heart all the European flags, so I don't see the problem.
By the way, it's not very difficult to assume that Spanish flag represents Spanish language, British flag-English and so on... >>
I agree. I would have known that the Union Jack represented "English", not only the nationality, but also, possibly, the language (standard deduction). Otherwise, how could they add a flag for each country? That would require hundreds of flags, many of which would be ganz redundant.
By the way, it's not very difficult to assume that Spanish flag represents Spanish language, British flag-English and so on... >>
I agree. I would have known that the Union Jack represented "English", not only the nationality, but also, possibly, the language (standard deduction). Otherwise, how could they add a flag for each country? That would require hundreds of flags, many of which would be ganz redundant.
<<Can anyone of you show me a large influential website that uses flags for languages instead of language names? >>
<<http://www.conlanger.com/>>
conlanger.com? Are you kidding? I've never heard of that page. It's not influential at all. And the site looks not really professional.
And they really use the English flag (not the British one) for the English langauge...? I bet that only a small percentage of people knows that flag...
<<http://www.conlanger.com/>>
conlanger.com? Are you kidding? I've never heard of that page. It's not influential at all. And the site looks not really professional.
And they really use the English flag (not the British one) for the English langauge...? I bet that only a small percentage of people knows that flag...
Now, you've heart of it! It's quite a nice and interesting site. I visit it regularly. And it's influential to those who conlang. And they use the flags a lot.
Even if I'm European, I don't know many of the european flags by heart.
Even if I'm European, I don't know many of the european flags by heart.
Well, it's not like they have every language in the world in those cases where flags are used. Normally it's just 2 or 3 flags of countries which are RELEVANT, and hence more likely to be recognised. Obviously if you visit the site you may not recognise some obscure flag, but that doesn't matter because you don't speak that language. As long as you recognise the flag of the language you speak... For example, an Austrian may not recognise the Catalan flag, but it doesn't matter because he won't read it in Catalan anyway, as long as he recognises the German flag, which almost every Austrian does. It would be pretty stupid not to know your OWN flag or the flag of the country associated with the language you speak. If you don't then you don't deserve to visit the site and should be executed.
This is pretty silly. It neither annoys me or confuses me when I see a website with flags on its welcome page. If I want the page in English, I click on the Union Jack flag, the American flag, or the half-American-half-Union Jack flag. I have no problem with this. I actually like the flags--The US and UK flags are pretty--even the hybrid one. Any educated person here would be able to recognize those flags. This is quite a silly debate. The only possible confulsion would be if they used say the Canadian flag or the English flag. If you clicked on the Canadian flag, there would be a chance that the content would be in French, and the English flag is less internationally known, and could be confused with other countries by people that didn't know the flags of the world. So anyway, at least for English, the UK or US, or UK/US hybrid flag is best
Some of you don't seem to get it. The point is that (1) there are people who find flags annoying for the reasons given above, and (2) there is no one-to-one mapping between flags (= countries) and languages. Therefore using flags is not a good solution!
A better one is to use text links instead because (1) nobody ist annoyed (2) text links are unambiguous.
Look at how it's done on www.youtube.com: Flags are used for countries only (which is ok), and text links for the various languages.
A better one is to use text links instead because (1) nobody ist annoyed (2) text links are unambiguous.
Look at how it's done on www.youtube.com: Flags are used for countries only (which is ok), and text links for the various languages.
By the way:
This is what the experts of the World Wide Web Consortium say about this issue:
W3C Working Group,
Best Practice 16:
Do not use flag icons to indicate languages.
No UA applicability issues.
How to: Use text. See Example 23 for one illustration.
Discussion: Flags represent countries, not languages. Numerous countries use the same language as another country, and numerous countries have more than one official language. Flags don't map onto these permutations.
This is what the experts of the World Wide Web Consortium say about this issue:
W3C Working Group,
Best Practice 16:
Do not use flag icons to indicate languages.
No UA applicability issues.
How to: Use text. See Example 23 for one illustration.
Discussion: Flags represent countries, not languages. Numerous countries use the same language as another country, and numerous countries have more than one official language. Flags don't map onto these permutations.
Better idea: use flags but put the name of the language under it. Anyone that getys offended by the flag of their country or another one that speaks the same language. Should be tried for treason. Flags add some colo(u)r to otherwise drab websites.
I have a site. It's offered in only English, French, and Italian. There is no possibility of ambiguity or confusion. It has a British-American flag with the word "English" under it, a French flag with the words "French/Francais" under it, and an Italian flag with the words "Italian/Italiano" under it. Underneath it is a link that says "Help, I don't know which flag to click!" (Which links to an English website on flags of the world). I honestly don't understand what is wrong with my interface design.
webmeistro - you're interface design is not "wrong". But you don't really need the flags and this strange link "Help, I don't know which flag to click!"
"English - Francais - Italiano" is enough. People looking for another language will find the links (usually in the left or right upper corner of the page) and click on it.
"English - Francais - Italiano" is enough. People looking for another language will find the links (usually in the left or right upper corner of the page) and click on it.
There's nothing wrong with having the flags there. There is no ambiguity. There is no possibility of confusion. Anyone that speaks French will be able to recognize France's flag, for example. This whole debate is quite silly. The best way to go about it is to have the flag+the text link, especially if the flags are unambiguous such as the British-American flag, the French flag, and the Italian flag.