Opinions of speaker usage

Dan   Mon May 18, 2009 1:53 pm GMT
<<<I was educated in international, British and American schools where English was the universal medium of communication>>>

Do we need a comma before international, there?
Dan   Mon May 18, 2009 1:54 pm GMT
Sorry, I meant "after international".
Mufti   Mon May 18, 2009 1:57 pm GMT
<<However, I'm a fan of clarity and precision. I'm not a grammar freak, but as a scientist, I value precision above all else. >>

You must be a bowl of fun to chat with down the local boozer. C'mon, Haggis, lighten up.
rapp   Mon May 18, 2009 3:54 pm GMT
<<Would you expect that speaker to be an educated speaker, i.e. a quality-speaker, of English? >>

Yes. We don't go around sounding like Shakespeare all the time. In informal settings, informal speech is the norm. I am assuming that the identity of the girl who has the porsche, and the guy who has a girlfriend were established earlier in the conversation. If so, great; the sentence is fine. If not, it is too sloppy and needs to be re-worded. But even in that case, native speakers sometimes mistakenly assume the listener knows who a pronoun refers to, so I wouldn't jump to a conclusion about the speaker's ability from this one sentence.

<<But that type of English usage isn't much found in English as a Second or Other Language (ESOL) classrooms, is it?>>

I don't know. I'm a native English speaker, so I've never been part of such a class. But probably not.

<<hongkonger's "significantly" anecdote>>

That's a tricky situation. Whether I agree with you or your professors depends on context. If you were presenting a paper, or discussing research results amongst a group of scientists, I would agree with your professors. In that case "significant" is really scientific jargon, not standard English.

If you were discussing the research in a group that included a significant (hah!) number of laymen, who might not understand the scientific jargon use of the term, I would side with you.
Hongkonger in Edinburgh   Mon May 18, 2009 4:24 pm GMT
Dan: <<Do we need a comma [after] international, there?>>

Yes we do. I went to international schools (in Hong Kong), British schools (in the UK) and American schools (in the US)... not international British schools and international American schools. The comma serves a purpose =p

Mufti: <<You must be a bowl of fun to chat with down the local boozer. C'mon, Haggis, lighten up.>>

Oh, don't worry, I'm not really a pedant in real life, or at least I try not to be. At the very least, I don't go around picking on people's English usage. I was expressing my opinion here only because I was asked for it. "What is my opinion of this speaker's usage?" - Well, not very positive!

To rapp: Point taken.
Hongkonger in Edinburgh   Mon May 18, 2009 4:45 pm GMT
Rap: <<We don't go around sounding like Shakespeare all the time. In informal settings, informal speech is the norm.>>

I completely agree with you. Actually, my argument has never been about formality or informality. If you'll re-read my original post, you'll see that the problem I have with that speaker's usage is its ambiguity, not its informality. As I pointed out, three meanings of the original sentence are theoretically possible (irrespective of the "normal person's" interpretation).

I wouldn't have a problem with something like:
"Her friend in Chester, you know... well, his girlfriend's parents bought his girlfriend a Porsche for her birthday"

or even

"Her friend in Chester, his girlfriend ah, her parents, wah lau eh, the parents buy the daughter Porsche for birthday siah!"

Ungrammatical and inelegant but unambiguous (just ignore the Singlish interjections if you don't understand them).
leh   Mon May 18, 2009 6:24 pm GMT
<<"Her friend in Chester, his girlfriend ah, her parents, wah lau eh, the parents buy the daughter Porsche for birthday siah!">>


Awesooooome! Singlish must be real cool.
MollyB   Mon May 18, 2009 10:08 pm GMT
This is actually the original:

"His cousin in Hampshire, her boyfriend, his parents bought him a car for his birthday."


Uttered by none other than HRH Prince Charles.