Survival English
Most native speakers of English speak 'Survival English'. They speak the English that is necessary for them to lead successful lives.
Yet foreign learners of English are expected to complete a very artificial series of tests, and learn 'grammar' and other things that native English speakers never learn.
By applying too high a standard, teachers of English as a foreign language are putting people off the English language. There should be more emphasis on 'communication'.
In the introduction to antimoon, there is a discussion about how poor teachers of English as a foreign language are in practice. They teach from text books; they have very little real knowledge of English; they are essentially teaching students to pass exams.
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Teacher
Communication for conversation, tourism, chatting on a forum/skype is one thing, passing an English exam e.g. Cambridge FCE, CPE etc is another. The exams require certain levels of knowledge and corresponding accuracy.
I'm all for descriptive, meaning-centred language, but when it comes down to it, in business, working in most professions or for studying at uni for example, accuracy IS important. The same holds true in one's native language.
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<<Most native speakers of English speak 'Survival English'. They speak the English that is necessary for them to lead successful lives.>>
Yes. To lead a SUCCESFUL life you must speak correct English.
<<Yet foreign learners of English are expected to complete a very artificial series of tests, and learn 'grammar' and other things that native English speakers never learn.>>
Native speakers just learnt it in a different way. Non-native speakers must learn it and the most effective way is "artificial" tests. Unfortunately for non-natives, learning the language "like a baby" doesn't work well.
<<By applying too high a standard, teachers of English as a foreign language are putting people off the English language. There should be more emphasis on 'communication'.>>
By applying a low standard they would be aiming for the lowest common denominator. People need the best English possible to be SUCCESSFUL. The people who aren't capable of learning it this well probably wouldn't be successful anyway so it doesn't matter if they're put off.
<<In the introduction to antimoon, there is a discussion about how poor teachers of English as a foreign language are in practice. They teach from text books; they have very little real knowledge of English; they are essentially teaching students to pass exams. >>
It doesn't matter that much. It is more important that the the teachers know the formal rules than the informal rules. Why? Because you learn the formal rules BEFORE the informal rules. Once you know the formal rules then it should be easier to learn the informal ones by yourself or at least by asking native speakers rather than requiring a teacher.
How ignorant you are!
Even fools know exams fabricated as GRE or TOEFL, IELTS, Cambridge FCE, CPE or whatever are big money-ripping-off business!
Shame!
nimz Fri May 29, 2009 10:53 am GMT
<<Most native speakers of English speak 'Survival English'. They speak the English that is necessary for them to lead successful lives.>>
Yes. To lead a SUCCESFUL life you must speak correct English.
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One of the biggest scams Shuimo has ever heard of!
"Yes. To lead a SUCCESFUL life you must speak correct English."
If you live in the US or in the UK, then maybe yes. (And "successful is spelled with two s's.)
And Canada and Australia and New Zealand, and Ireland. I never understand why everyone just pretends that Canada is part of the US, and the rest of the English-speaking countries are part of the UK.
How much time did you spend composing your post Robin; an hour, two hours? It is almost articulate; good for you.
Post from Estgue
How much time did you spend composing your post Robin; an hour, two hours? It is almost articulate; good for you.
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My reply
I did not spend a great deal of time on it. Perhaps you could give me an example of an inarticulate post that I have written. Incidentally, I cannot recollect any posts that you have written. What standard are you up too?
A native speakers learns grammar from the first day they try to speak onwards. You can't speak a language without it. When you say "most native speakers" to how many of the hundreds of millions of individuals do you refer? I'm a native speaker who was taught grammar throughout school.
Speaking a language consists of everything from "survival" to "correct" English, and guess what, sometimes they're the same thing (facetiousness intended).