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Confusion: Rome – Roma - Roman - Romania –Romanian - Romany
I am Romanian from Transilvania; and despite the Romanian – Hungarian political conflicts, as I’ve stated before, Romanians, the German and the Hungarian minority from Transilvania, coexisted peacefully for hundreds of years, without any major inter-racial or inter-cultural conflicts.
The ultra-nationalistic Romanians and the Hungarians irredentists, are the ones responsible for any Political tensions, invoking, interpreting and inventing a pre-fabricated history, overnight ... OVER !
Merry Christmas! I wish you an enjoyable Christmas holiday!
Brennus:
Craciun Fericit si domniei voastre ! Un an nou fericit !
Hungarians are inferiors and ugly peoples and is a barbaric asian population
Romanian wrote:
>>The Hungarian Székely minority from Transilvania, are an ancient conservative, group of people with very strong mongoloid features, they are very short and predominantly fat, round heads, and Asian eyes. They refuse to learn proper Romanian and never intermix with other nations. Their customs and manner of speech is quite odd, unusual, compared with any European people... Nobody cares about some irredentist Hungarians. A nation with a NON European origin, speaking a NON Indo-European language, having NON European features and preaching about a lost cause!<< (end of quote)
A short stay in any town in Hungary will disprove the "non-European features" part. Besides, the remark about speaking a language of non-European (or, more properly, of non Indo-European) origin has no relavance today. Both the non Indo-European Hungarians and the Indo-European Romanians have been part of European culture for more than one thousand years (as have the Finns, Estonians and Basques, who also speak non Indo-European languages).
And not all of the Székely people look the way that you described, and not all of them are extremists (in fact, the whole issue of the Romanian-Hungarian relationship throughout history is much more complex than just a "black vs. white" issue). It is true, some of the Székely people are rather proud and there are certainly some who refuse to learn Romanian, but none of those I know personally have this attitude - after all, they have to use Romanian as soon as they leave their villages and towns in areas where they are a local majority, so what is the point in refusing to learn it?
By the way, I did not mean to start any dispute about superiority, or political extremism, and would like to stay within the boundaries of objective debate, without fueling unnecessary flames. I brought up the issue of Daco-Romanian continuity (still a very delicate issue) only because the question of the exact origin of Romanians is frequently described as a "puzzling" one. The undisputable fact that Romanians speak a Romance language does not necessarily mean that they are descended from the Dacians. The largest part of the Balkan Peninsula was Romanised by the time the Roman Empire broke up, and Romanian actually is a lot alike to Aromunian, another Romance language that is spoken in Greece (that is, much to the south from present-day Romania).
Romanian wrote:
>>Every encyclopaedia in the world, history book, describes the Daco-Romanian continuity. Romanian language is the oldest Romance language, preserving many unaltered archaic and Classical Latin words, and is also the closest language to Classical Latin. And the Ancient Romanians the Dacians were always present, inhabiting the Carpatho –Danubiano- Pontic region.
Modern and ancient Historians from all over the world (except Hungary) described and promoted the Daco-Romanian continuity.<< (end of quote)
As to to the current standpoint of non-Romanian and non-Hungarian scientists on the Daco-Roman continuity theory, see this discussion: http://www.karpatenwilli.com/roman01.htm
An excerpt from the website above (by a forum poster in German, translation provided):
"In den historischen Fachdisziplinen Osteuropäische Geschichte, Alte Geschichte, Mediavistik usw. außerhalb Rumäniens (und das hat mit Ungarn überhaupt nichts zu tun) gilt die dakoromanische Kontiniutätstheorie also die Vorstellung das die heutigen Rumänen aus einer Kombination von Dakern und Römern hervorgingen allegemein als alberner Anachronismus, der in Seminaren an den Unis (natürlich auch in Frankreich) als Fallbeispiel für von im 19. Jh. kreierten nationalen Mythen herangezogen wird (siehe zum Beispiel auch der noch sehr junge Mythos von Mihai Viteazul als ersten Gründer eines vereinten rumänischen Staates)."
"In the history disciplines of East European History, Ancient History, Mediaeval History, etc. outside of Romania (and that has nothing at all to do with Hungary) the theory of Daco-Romanian continuity - that is, the idea that the present-day Romanians are descended from a combination of Dacians and Romanians - is regarded as a sheer anachronism, which is cited in univerity seminars (also in France, of course) as an example of national myths created in the 19th century (see also the very recent myth of Mihai Viteazul as the first founder of an unified Romanian state)."
There are more claims in the debate on this site that many "third-party" (and therefore impartial) scholars reject the "pure" theory of Daco-Romanian continuity, or in any case, regard it as just one of the possible origin theories.
It is also useful to read this article (in French), written by two French balkanologists:
http://www.afebalk.org/page.php3?id_page=82
See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Romania_in_the_Middle_Ages
By the way, the migration theory itself was not created by Hungarian "extremists", but by the Austrian historian Robert Roesler, in 1871. See a good overview of the the theory and the whole issue at: www.rri.ro/index.php?lmb=4&art=9726 (I personally agree with the final conclusion of this article wholeheartedly).
To be impartial, I have also considered the points from this article, rather passionate about the continuity theory:
http://www.posada-online.org/id6.htm.
Many of its points make sense, actually (except for the consistent identification of the supporters of the migration theory as "extremists").
Reading all this material will hopefully give a good overview of the issue we are talking about to those less familiar with it.
The above does not mean, however, that I personally subscribe to any extremist theory or myth about Hungarians being "unique", "superior", etc. What's more, I personally have no bad feelings towards any Romanians, including the Romanian posters on this forum. I have some Romanian friends, and in my general experience Romanians are very witty people. I even speak a little Romanian, which I think is a beautiful language. Even if there are some points where we would better agree to differ, and with the hope that I have not offended anyone's feelings, I join Brennus: Vă doresc un nou an fericit!
Romanian wrote:
>>I am Romanian from Transilvania; and despite the Romanian – Hungarian political conflicts, as I’ve stated before, Romanians, the German and the Hungarian minority from Transilvania, coexisted peacefully for hundreds of years, without any major inter-racial or inter-cultural conflicts.<<
That's a point I fully agree with. The political debate in which extreme views are often the loudest is one thing. The actual relationship between the populations concerned is another. While the past is open to interpretations, it should not influence the actual reality of inter-ethnic relationships.
Romanian wrote:
>>The majority of the Transylvanian gipsies are from Hungary and most of them speak only “Secuieste” or Székely - Hungarian ! The Romanian Government instituted special schools in Hungarian language for this large Hungarian gipsy minority from Transilvania, who don’t even speak Romanian.<<
Honestly, I didn't know this, so thanks for the info. In my experience, Gypsies have a tendency to adopt the language of their immediate environment, so those Gypsies you are talking about may have come from an environment in Transylvania where Hungarian is predominantly spoken (such as the counties Harghita and Covasna). However, when speaking of Romanian Gypsies in general, I mostly meant the Gypsies in Oltenia and Muntenia, where, as I know, they are more numerous, and must definitely speak a variety of Romani influenced by Romanian. In Hungary, there is a group of Gypsies called "Wlach Gypsies" (the "traditional" Gypsy groups who tend to live in separate settlements), who speak a variety of Lovari highly influenced by Romanian (Lovari is a dialect of the Romani or Gypsy language).
From rumâni to români
The actual name of Romanian is a corrupted form of Dacian origin. As in medieval writings, the correct word is rumân and the country of the Dacian descendents was named Ţara Rumeniască. This name is Dacian and Tracian. We can find it in numerous writings starting from antiquity.
A foreigner, a priest named Trigor Soimirovici, who was Bulgarian, visited Ţara Rumeniască and noted a couple of sentences which he then translated into Latin. From their analysis and translation it is obvious he didn't know Romanian and neither could he pronounce Romanian word correctly, but then again he was a foreigner. He translated “Rumeni” to the improper form of “Romani” along with other words, but of which this is the most important. So then, Rumeni is translated, with absolutely no basis, into Romani. In that time, Rome was pronounced Râm in Romanian, and Romans as Râmleni.
This is actually from a book I was reading the other day, and there is a long demonstration that is kind of hard to translate... sorry..
Vlad tepes wrote:
The theory of “Romanians migrating to present day Romania from the south) is ABSURD! And only supported and invented by the Hungarians irredentists – Hungarians don’t have European ancestry. They have a Uralic
Mongoloid ancestry!
By the way! Estonia, Finland and Hungary are the only EU countries with a non-European ancestry.
Romanians are gypsies...
non European ancestry too
Romanian wrote:
>>The Hungarian Székely minority from Transilvania, are an ancient conservative, group of people with very strong mongoloid features, they are very short and predominantly fat, round heads, and Asian eyes. They refuse to learn proper Romanian and never intermix with other nations. Their customs and manner of speech is quite odd, unusual, compared with any European people... Nobody cares about some irredentist Hungarians. A nation with a NON European origin, speaking a NON Indo-European language, having NON European features and preaching about a lost cause!<< (end of quote)
Romanians, the descendats of gypsy from India, are ugly many of them being car thieves in Holland...never try to integrate folowing european norm
Romanians because they are descendants of gypsy, they are NON European origin, they try to speak in Italy to be Included as european, having NON European features and claim as Indo-european.
Dont mess with Hungarian, we own you...
Genetics: Romanian and the "gypsy" gene pool are the closest in whole europe, this is well known. This shows that the romanians are originated from somewhere the near east / india.
Hungarians have_the_highest EU19 genetic marker in WHOLE europe. Hungarians got 60% EU19 genes, the poles only got like 55%. EU19 is the aryan or indo european marker.
So now tell me, if the hungarians were mongoloid, how is this possible, that they are most pure blooded indo-europeans now? Their language is non indo european, but their blood is pure. Odd isnt it?
If you visit Hungary, you will see, how a real slavic country looks like. Anthropoligically you will find awesome examples, how the ancient indo europeans looked like. Now go to Romania, and you will see non european looking peoples mostly. They are usually darker skinned like a turk with slight near eastern anthropological features.
So all in all, I would say that all romanians here can forget about the daco-romanian theory, its just a stupid myth made up in the 19th century if im correct by some romanian. It is a fact that the romanians came to europe thorugh turkey after the 11th century, and they were allowed to settle down in Transylvania after the Mongol invasion in the 12th century.
"It is a fact that the romanians came to europe thorugh turkey after the 11th century, and they were allowed to settle down in Transylvania after the Mongol invasion in the 12th century"
What kind of fact is that? Where did you read such a bizarre theory?? Only a paranoic and a man full of hate could sustain such a theory.
It is sad but it is a fact that Gipsies and Romanians don't like eachother and it is still even in their people culture not to permit marriages between them. Gypsies used to torture Gipsy girls who falled in love with Romanians. And Romanians families are still looking at girls gums colour, if they have a blue tent that means she could be a Gypsy and they think that will not be good for them. It is not a fact to be proud of, but it is still happening.
As a matter of fact, Gypsies were slaves until 1830 when they were eliberated.
Anyway, Hungarians are Romanians allies now, and, in my oppinion, the ones living in Romania should feel themselves as being at home, because this country is their country too. The other genetical and racial remarks as the ones above are in connection with some menthal disorder.
All European nations, including Romania and Hungary, have a great variation of different ethnic, or racial strains in them. It is silly to assign one or two particular racial characteristics in describing what the resident of any particular nation looks like.
LOL, there is a hungarian in this forum, desperately trying to denigrate the romanians.
yo hungarian dude, everybody knows the history, you hungarian guys are non Indo-europeans. Your language is turkic mongoloid, as well as your genes and look. My advice to you is to stop spaming this forum and learn to accept the fact that you are not an indo-european speaker.
and one more thing. I have been to Hungary, and Hungary is full of Hungarian gypsies, one of them tryed to steal my mobile phone.
When I visited eastern europe, I remember while I was in romania in Cluji, i saw many chinese or asian loking people. I asked the hotel receptionist who was asian looking as well, where are you from, and she said: I am from here but i am Hungarian from Transylvania.
There are few milions hungarians, living in romania, they looked asian to me, some where blonds, but had asian eyes. While visited Hungary, i did not understood a single word, even the universal word POLICE is something live "bleshterekly" in Hungarian.
"While visited Hungary, i did not understood a single word, even the universal word POLICE is something live "bleshterekly" in Hungarian."
For your general culture POLICE in Hungarian is not "bleshterekly" but RENDORSEG (Rendőrség). But I got your point anyway.
And not just Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, or Eastern Europe has gypsies.
Spain, Italy, Southern France are full of gypsies as well. And Flamenco is almost a gypsy culture, not Spanish or Latin.
Hungarians are indeed non Europeans, they came from Asia, and speak an asian language, but today they are considered European people.
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