a water? a passion?

alaba   Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:48 am GMT
i was told that it's wrong to say "a water" because water can't be grabbed and it can't be counted. But then how come you can say things like "a passion"? Passion can't be grabbed or counted as well but how come it can have "a"?
English Speaker   Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:11 am GMT
The phrase "a water" can be used. People will think you want a glass of water. Passion can also be used with or without the word "a" in front.

Here are some examples of both words:

-Waiter, I want a water, please.
-Who else wants water?

-I have a passion for art.
-My passion is art.



Unfortunately, there are no hard and fast rules. There are situations where either word can be used with the word "a" in front. It may take some time to pick up on the subtle differences.
Cian   Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:13 am GMT
A passion can be counted. If I say I have a passion for books, it is one passion. It is a single unit. I think you are confusing what can be counted with what can be measured. Since passion is abstract, it cannot be measured. However, a passion or several passions can be counted (e.g. I have two passions in life, music and nature). While water can be measured (I have three cups of water) it cant be counted. How many waters are in three cups? I suppose one could count each molecule of H2O, but that is a bit extreme. Do you understand the difference?
alaba   Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:34 am GMT
Thanks, Cian and English speaker.
Now I think I got it.
But I think I heard a native speaker saying "Helium is a gas". Gas is similar to water so you can never say "a gas", right?
user   Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:00 am GMT
"Helium is a gas." is correct because it is saying that helium is a type of gas.
alaba   Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:04 am GMT
So do you mean that you can use "a" with uncountable nouns that can't normally be used with "a" AS LONG AS you're implying an additional meaning like "a type of", even though, in literal sense in the sentence, "a" is seemingly referring to "gas"?
H   Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:07 am GMT
alaba, yes. For instance,
It's a very good soap. = kind of soap
Rick   Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:37 pm GMT
There's nothing wrong with saying "a water". Native speakers say it all the time. It's simply a short way of saying "a glass/bottle of water".
alaba   Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:34 pm GMT
Thanks guys! Now I completely understand it. I thought native speakers were contradicting themselves when they said "a" can't be used with uncountable nouns and then say things like "a water".
mrstrn   Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:08 pm GMT
yeah our teachers taught us not to use 'a water' They said it would be grammatically incorrect and native speakers don't use it
alaba   Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:19 am GMT
Is happiness also not countable like water? Some people say, "I find happiness in," while others say, "I find a happiness in". Which is correct? I guess happiness cannot be counted, so "a" can't be used with it, right?
MrPedantic   Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:09 am GMT
Hello Alaba,

When you encounter "a" + a noun that you might regard as non-countable, you can apply this filter:

1. Is it a short form?

In the examples above, "a water" is a short form of "a glass/cup of water". Cf. "a coffee", which means "a [cup of] coffee".

2. Does it imply "a kind of"?

"Passion" is a general concept; "a passion" is a particular example. Thus:

a) He has great passion [general]
b) He has a passion for golf [particular]

Many nouns (especially abstractions) that are usually non-countable can be used in this way; though with varying degrees of frequency.

Thus "a passion" is quite common, but "a happiness" is not common at all, and might suggest e.g. a literary context.

(The same applies to plural forms, by the way: thus "six coffees" would usually mean "six cups of coffee", while "her passions" would imply "different kinds of passion".)

Best wishes,

MrP
alaba   Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:19 pm GMT
Why does English have articles? They are weird and I hate them.