Are these pronounced the same, or not?
Very/Vary
I pronounce them both the same, as ["vEr\i]. However, I believe some dialects do distinguish them.
Add 'bury' to 'berry'/'barry', all three which I pronounce identically.
<<Are these pronounced the same, or not?>>
In my dialect, no (since I lack the Mary-merry-marry merger). For me,
very - [vEr\i]
vary - [vE@r\i]
<<How about 'Berry' and 'Barry'?>>
Again, those are different in my dialect.
berry - [bEr\i]
Barry - [b{r\i]
In my dialect, no (since I lack the Mary-merry-marry merger). For me,
very - [vEr\i]
vary - [vE@r\i]
<<How about 'Berry' and 'Barry'?>>
Again, those are different in my dialect.
berry - [bEr\i]
Barry - [b{r\i]
<<Are these pronounced the same, or not?>>
In my dialect, no (since I lack the Mary-merry-marry merger). For me,
very - [vEr\i]
vary - [vE@r\i]
<<How about 'Berry' and 'Barry'?>>
Again, those are different in my dialect.
berry - [bEr\i]
Barry - [b{r\i] >>
We're the same again Lazar. I don't pronounce them the same.
In my dialect, no (since I lack the Mary-merry-marry merger). For me,
very - [vEr\i]
vary - [vE@r\i]
<<How about 'Berry' and 'Barry'?>>
Again, those are different in my dialect.
berry - [bEr\i]
Barry - [b{r\i] >>
We're the same again Lazar. I don't pronounce them the same.
I also pronounce "very" and "vary" the same. I'm from California, by the way.
<<I also pronounce "very" and "vary" the same. I'm from California, by the way.>>
As would be expected :)
As would be expected :)
Bury has the same vowel as nurse for me.
For me, very and vary are words that are very varied in pronunciation...
For me, very and vary are words that are very varied in pronunciation...
<<Bury has the same vowel as nurse for me.
For me, very and vary are words that are very varied in pronunciation...>>
Do you have the furry-ferry merger?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_vowel_changes_before_historic_r#Furry-ferry_merger
For me, very and vary are words that are very varied in pronunciation...>>
Do you have the furry-ferry merger?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_vowel_changes_before_historic_r#Furry-ferry_merger
JC Wells lists "vary" under the "square" words. However, he does mention at the beginning of the section describing the "square" words that not all instances of GenAm (er-aer) belong in "square" ... a number or words are assigned to "dress" and "trap".
Most Americans use either the "trap" vowel for "vary/various" (like I do) and some use the "dress" vowel. As an actor who is also fluent in RP, I have no trouble using the "square" vowel in pronouncing "vary/various" (that being the correct RP form) but when I revert to GenAm I tend to use the "trap" vowel even though it would be easy enough, at least in theory, to speak GA (in all other respects) and still maintain "square" for "vary". However, because I'm so used to using "trap" for "vary" in GA, and "square" for "vary" in RP, I find it difficult to crossover, even though there are some Americans who use the "square" vowel for "vary" (but this is more common in a New York accent, ironically enough, than in GA). However, New Yorkese also uses "square" for words with double 'r' (such as "Larry" and "marry") where RP always uses "trap". New Yorkese also, ironically, agrees with RP in the dipthongization of certain 'near' words (RP and NY both have "searius" for 'serious' where GA uses "sirius".) However, NY also uses a dipthong in words like "mirror" and "spirit" where RP uses the monopthongal "kit" vowel instead. New Yorkese has a very strong tendency towards dipthongization (even in cases where its use is not really "correct" - i.e. it diverges from both GA and RP).
JC Wells also claims that Americans rhyme 'mirror' with 'nearer'. I don't. Not when I'm speaking GenAm and not when I'm speaking RP. I've always used "near" for "nearer" and "kit" for "mirror". In New Yorkese they DO rhyme, however both words take "near" rather than "kit" (which is what JC Wells claims Americans use).
Thus, GAE (according to Wells) has [miror] and [nirer].
However, New Yorkese has [mearah] and [nearah]
However, in my GA, I have [miror] but [nearer], which agrees with RP except that the RP pronunciation is non-rhotic [miruh] and [nearuh].
However, to answer your original question:
"vary" in conservative GA is [vaeri:] and [veri:] (it takes 'trap' or 'dress')in some GA pronunciations but in RP it is [ve3ri] (it takes 'square'). I'd have to pronounce both for you since I cannot really transcribe them.
The 'near', 'square', 'force', and 'cure' words are, indeed, the ones which are open to the most debate with regard to pronunciation, especially when these phonemes occur before a vowel (in final utterance position it is a bit simpler and more obvious as to what the pronunciation "should" be). Part of the reason why is that there is not always a one-to-one correspondence between RP and GA witrh regard to certain words within these lexical sets and part of the reason is that even within GA there is variation (no pun intended) as I have discussed above while in RP 'cure' seems to have merged into 'north-force-thought' while 'near' appears to be merging into 'square' (at least in some varieties of RP with a very open second element).
Most Americans use either the "trap" vowel for "vary/various" (like I do) and some use the "dress" vowel. As an actor who is also fluent in RP, I have no trouble using the "square" vowel in pronouncing "vary/various" (that being the correct RP form) but when I revert to GenAm I tend to use the "trap" vowel even though it would be easy enough, at least in theory, to speak GA (in all other respects) and still maintain "square" for "vary". However, because I'm so used to using "trap" for "vary" in GA, and "square" for "vary" in RP, I find it difficult to crossover, even though there are some Americans who use the "square" vowel for "vary" (but this is more common in a New York accent, ironically enough, than in GA). However, New Yorkese also uses "square" for words with double 'r' (such as "Larry" and "marry") where RP always uses "trap". New Yorkese also, ironically, agrees with RP in the dipthongization of certain 'near' words (RP and NY both have "searius" for 'serious' where GA uses "sirius".) However, NY also uses a dipthong in words like "mirror" and "spirit" where RP uses the monopthongal "kit" vowel instead. New Yorkese has a very strong tendency towards dipthongization (even in cases where its use is not really "correct" - i.e. it diverges from both GA and RP).
JC Wells also claims that Americans rhyme 'mirror' with 'nearer'. I don't. Not when I'm speaking GenAm and not when I'm speaking RP. I've always used "near" for "nearer" and "kit" for "mirror". In New Yorkese they DO rhyme, however both words take "near" rather than "kit" (which is what JC Wells claims Americans use).
Thus, GAE (according to Wells) has [miror] and [nirer].
However, New Yorkese has [mearah] and [nearah]
However, in my GA, I have [miror] but [nearer], which agrees with RP except that the RP pronunciation is non-rhotic [miruh] and [nearuh].
However, to answer your original question:
"vary" in conservative GA is [vaeri:] and [veri:] (it takes 'trap' or 'dress')in some GA pronunciations but in RP it is [ve3ri] (it takes 'square'). I'd have to pronounce both for you since I cannot really transcribe them.
The 'near', 'square', 'force', and 'cure' words are, indeed, the ones which are open to the most debate with regard to pronunciation, especially when these phonemes occur before a vowel (in final utterance position it is a bit simpler and more obvious as to what the pronunciation "should" be). Part of the reason why is that there is not always a one-to-one correspondence between RP and GA witrh regard to certain words within these lexical sets and part of the reason is that even within GA there is variation (no pun intended) as I have discussed above while in RP 'cure' seems to have merged into 'north-force-thought' while 'near' appears to be merging into 'square' (at least in some varieties of RP with a very open second element).