I scream, you scream, we all scream for ice cream.

Rick   Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:06 am GMT
Do you pronounce "I scream" and "ice cream" the same? I don't. The "k" sound is aspirated in the latter, but not the former.
ASS   Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:45 am GMT
No.
cr   Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:28 pm GMT
I wonder if anyone makes a distinction because of Canadian raising.
morer   Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:28 pm GMT
I don't either.

After saying a long "I", I pause slightly before saying "scream".

The "I" in "ice" is attached to "ce", so I say it as the one syllable word with a "curt 'I'" that it is.
morer   Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:33 pm GMT
cr - I'm not sure what you mean by "Canadian raising". Do you mean being raised as a Canadian or are you describing the sound of letters?
cr   Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:59 pm GMT
Canadian raising refers to raising of the "I" sound and sometimes the "ow" sound before certain consonants like s, p, t, k, th, f. So words like "rider" and "writer" are actually pronounced differently--not by the t/d, as that is of course pronounced the same, but rather by the vowel sound. This is found mostly in North America, particularily in Canada and many of the northern and northwestern states.
vaibhav   Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:59 pm GMT
no..its not the same..
AJC   Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:57 pm GMT
From these pages

http://www.ling.ed.ac.uk/research/gsound/Eng/Database/Phonetics/Englishes/ByWord/Word_045_ice.htm

http://www.ling.ed.ac.uk/research/gsound/Eng/Database/Phonetics/Englishes/ByWord/Word_044_I.htm

it looks like the number that pronouce them identically would be small, though of those that don't, some are closer to it than others.
morer   Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:37 pm GMT
Thanks for your explanation, cr. I have to say that I don't know anyone (Canadians anyway) who pronounce the d and t the same way for both words. I pronounce 'd' in rider and 't' in "writer" - as I was taught.

My dictionary shows the difference as well:

rIdu(r) for rider

rItu(r) for writer
cr   Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:51 pm GMT
All North American dialects of English have an alveolar flap sound for both d and t in the middle of words, except in careful or overemphasized speech. For example, I'm sure you don't pronounce ladder and latter differently, unless there is a special need to distinguish them ("I meant the "laTTer" not the ladder.) It is the same for writer/rider. It's the "I" sound that's different and not the d/t.
Levee44   Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:57 am GMT
It's the "I" sound that MAY be different.
cr   Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:12 pm GMT
>> It's the "I" sound that MAY be different <<

Indeed, if you live in Canada or northern or northwestern US. Perhaps in some Scottish and Irish dialects as well.
Another Guest   Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:14 pm GMT
I certainly distinguish between rider/writer, latter/ladder, and wading/waiting, and find it off-putting when others don't.
morer   Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:06 pm GMT
Yes I do pronounce "ladder" and "latter" differently including for words like the above mentioned wading/waiting.

But I agree that the "I" sound is different in writer/rider (as with I scream/ice cream).
cr   Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:45 pm GMT
Then you're either lying or from Newfoundland.