BTW, Americans know and even use the words "cinema" and "secondary school", but not as frequently as the alternatives you gave, I suppose. "Boot" and "pavement" are of course used in America, but not in the way the British use them. A "boot" is a type of footwear and "pavement" refers to any hard surface paved with concrete.
Enforcing the artificial US/UK English divide
I'm a Scot with a distinct yet soft, muted native Edinburgh Scottish accent but I really do like many of the English English accents I am currently living amongst down here, even out and out Estuary - within limits! ;-)
Such as that of Chloe Smith, Britain's newly elected Conservative MP for Norwich North - a Parliamentary constituency in Norfolk, in the East Anglia region of Eastern England.
Chloe is 27 years old (she is almost one month older than I am) and that makes her the youngest member of the British House of Commons of the Westminster Parliament here in London.
She took the seat for the Conservatives (or the Tories to give that party its old fashioned, and original name, from three centuries ago) and winning it from the ruling Labour Party in the by-election held in Norwich North on Thursday 23/07/09.
Chloe comes from the small Norfolk town of Swaffham, and attended York University, not too far from my own Yorkshire university in the city of Leeds. She represents so much of what I love and appreciate about the UK and I love her style of spoken English, so typical of her home area of England and its more educated and socially aware members of our mutual age group.
This was Chloe speaking once the election result had been announced in Norwich City Hall yesterday, Friday. That guy in the American style stetson hat was one of the "fringe party" candidates....the Independent I think!:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8166398.stm
Such as that of Chloe Smith, Britain's newly elected Conservative MP for Norwich North - a Parliamentary constituency in Norfolk, in the East Anglia region of Eastern England.
Chloe is 27 years old (she is almost one month older than I am) and that makes her the youngest member of the British House of Commons of the Westminster Parliament here in London.
She took the seat for the Conservatives (or the Tories to give that party its old fashioned, and original name, from three centuries ago) and winning it from the ruling Labour Party in the by-election held in Norwich North on Thursday 23/07/09.
Chloe comes from the small Norfolk town of Swaffham, and attended York University, not too far from my own Yorkshire university in the city of Leeds. She represents so much of what I love and appreciate about the UK and I love her style of spoken English, so typical of her home area of England and its more educated and socially aware members of our mutual age group.
This was Chloe speaking once the election result had been announced in Norwich City Hall yesterday, Friday. That guy in the American style stetson hat was one of the "fringe party" candidates....the Independent I think!:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8166398.stm
>> The United Kingdom and the United States of America in general vary in so many ways, including culturally and psychologically <<
Very true. But they are more similar to each other than either are to any other country besides Canada and Ireland, and perhaps Australia and New Zealand. In my opinion, they're more similar to each other than say, Norway and Sweden are to each other; or Germany and Austria. Although that's just my impression. What do you guys think? What's a good comparison?
>> What is "gelo"? <<
I believe it's a mispelling of a "Jell-O" a registered trademark of Kraft Foods. According to Wikipedia, ". The brand's popularity has led to its becoming a generic term for gelatin dessert across the US and Canada. Because of this, in the United States, packages of Jell-O are marked as Jell-O Brand."
Very true. But they are more similar to each other than either are to any other country besides Canada and Ireland, and perhaps Australia and New Zealand. In my opinion, they're more similar to each other than say, Norway and Sweden are to each other; or Germany and Austria. Although that's just my impression. What do you guys think? What's a good comparison?
>> What is "gelo"? <<
I believe it's a mispelling of a "Jell-O" a registered trademark of Kraft Foods. According to Wikipedia, ". The brand's popularity has led to its becoming a generic term for gelatin dessert across the US and Canada. Because of this, in the United States, packages of Jell-O are marked as Jell-O Brand."
TRAVIS: "and is smaller than that between, say, more extreme Upper Midwestern and Coastal Southern dialects in the US "
I agree with this, Travis. I find a similar vast gulf between Inland Southern English and Upper Midwestern, which is the reason that they frequently hate each other's accent so much—too much cognitive dissonance going on.
Moreover, I believe that Coastal Southern dialects, in particular, are closer to Received Pronunciation than they are to Upper Midwestern English.
I agree with this, Travis. I find a similar vast gulf between Inland Southern English and Upper Midwestern, which is the reason that they frequently hate each other's accent so much—too much cognitive dissonance going on.
Moreover, I believe that Coastal Southern dialects, in particular, are closer to Received Pronunciation than they are to Upper Midwestern English.
<<Did you eat already?
No, I left my gelo in the trunk, in the car parked on the sidewalk, not far from the freeway. You know, by the movie theater... been there ever since I graduated from high school, Sophomore's...
Have you eaten yet?
No, I left my jelly in the boot, in the car parked on the pavement, not far from the motorway. You know, by the cinema... been there ever since I finished secondary school, year 11... >>
Um, not quite, Caspian.
Jell-O is a brand name of gelatin, and must be spelled that way. There is no such thing as "gelo", not even as a generic term. We also have jelly, but it is more like a clear jam with no fruit pulp or pieces, as it is only made with strained fruit juice. But this usually goes on bread. With or without peanut butter. Mmm, peanut butter.....
We would never park on the sidewalk. That's a raised concrete area NEXT to the road, where people literally are trying to walk. We would get ticketed for having our wheels up over the curb. (Which you would spell kerb, for some unknown reason, although you still spell it curb when you mean "restrain". Weird!)
Sophomores are only in tenth grade, not eleventh. And you finish school after the twelfth grade. We also refer to high school as secondary school, although not so much when speaking in the vernacular (where did you go to high school?). Secondary school is much more of a formal designation, here. Just as "tertiary education" is the formal designation for one's time at a university. Yes, "at A university", not just "at university". And while you "go to university" we "go to college" .... usually at universities. So that's us being weird now!
And finally:
Did you eat yet/already? and Have you eaten yet? are synonymous here, and you may hear either said. The latter would not come off as odd or foreign-sounding; we use "have" constructions all the time.
No, I left my gelo in the trunk, in the car parked on the sidewalk, not far from the freeway. You know, by the movie theater... been there ever since I graduated from high school, Sophomore's...
Have you eaten yet?
No, I left my jelly in the boot, in the car parked on the pavement, not far from the motorway. You know, by the cinema... been there ever since I finished secondary school, year 11... >>
Um, not quite, Caspian.
Jell-O is a brand name of gelatin, and must be spelled that way. There is no such thing as "gelo", not even as a generic term. We also have jelly, but it is more like a clear jam with no fruit pulp or pieces, as it is only made with strained fruit juice. But this usually goes on bread. With or without peanut butter. Mmm, peanut butter.....
We would never park on the sidewalk. That's a raised concrete area NEXT to the road, where people literally are trying to walk. We would get ticketed for having our wheels up over the curb. (Which you would spell kerb, for some unknown reason, although you still spell it curb when you mean "restrain". Weird!)
Sophomores are only in tenth grade, not eleventh. And you finish school after the twelfth grade. We also refer to high school as secondary school, although not so much when speaking in the vernacular (where did you go to high school?). Secondary school is much more of a formal designation, here. Just as "tertiary education" is the formal designation for one's time at a university. Yes, "at A university", not just "at university". And while you "go to university" we "go to college" .... usually at universities. So that's us being weird now!
And finally:
Did you eat yet/already? and Have you eaten yet? are synonymous here, and you may hear either said. The latter would not come off as odd or foreign-sounding; we use "have" constructions all the time.
>> And you finish school after the twelfth grade <<
Except for some in Quebec, where they have a grade 13! But they're mostly French speaking so it doesn't really matter.
Except for some in Quebec, where they have a grade 13! But they're mostly French speaking so it doesn't really matter.
<<Did you eat already?
No, I left my gelo in the trunk, in the car parked on the sidewalk, not far from the freeway. You know, by the movie theater... been there ever since I graduated from high school, Sophomore's...
Have you eaten yet?
No, I left my jelly in the boot, in the car parked on the pavement, not far from the motorway. You know, by the cinema... been there ever since I finished secondary school, year 11... >>
Thanks for proving my point. I read through your examples and I didn't even notice what you were trying to do at first. For me 'freeway' is just a synonym of 'motorway', I don't see it as 'the British word for it'. They may use it more than I do, but that doesn't mean I don't know the word or have never used it myself. I have always know that word even though I'm an American and it never crossed my mind that it is 'the British word for it'.
Face it, the main differences in English are the accents. Also, it would be very, very difficult, if not impossible, to tell apart written British and Australian or New Zealand English. The only reason you can tell apart American is that 'ize' and 'o(u)r' stuff, and slang. However, slang is not that indicative of anything. Imo, slang differs more between different generations than between different countries.
PS. What's this about "did you eat/have you eaten already"? Are you trying to say these are examples of British/American English? LOL! That's nonsense.
No, I left my gelo in the trunk, in the car parked on the sidewalk, not far from the freeway. You know, by the movie theater... been there ever since I graduated from high school, Sophomore's...
Have you eaten yet?
No, I left my jelly in the boot, in the car parked on the pavement, not far from the motorway. You know, by the cinema... been there ever since I finished secondary school, year 11... >>
Thanks for proving my point. I read through your examples and I didn't even notice what you were trying to do at first. For me 'freeway' is just a synonym of 'motorway', I don't see it as 'the British word for it'. They may use it more than I do, but that doesn't mean I don't know the word or have never used it myself. I have always know that word even though I'm an American and it never crossed my mind that it is 'the British word for it'.
Face it, the main differences in English are the accents. Also, it would be very, very difficult, if not impossible, to tell apart written British and Australian or New Zealand English. The only reason you can tell apart American is that 'ize' and 'o(u)r' stuff, and slang. However, slang is not that indicative of anything. Imo, slang differs more between different generations than between different countries.
PS. What's this about "did you eat/have you eaten already"? Are you trying to say these are examples of British/American English? LOL! That's nonsense.
Are you trying to say these are examples of British/American English? LOL! That's nonsense.
British people consider ''Did you eat already?'' an Americanism...
British people consider ''Did you eat already?'' an Americanism...
'ugh Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:51 pm GMT
It seems they just want a reason to be able to say "hey, we're not Americans! Look, we write "ise" instead of "ize"!!!!! We're so unique"!"
Lol.
It seems they just want a reason to be able to say "hey, we're not Americans! Look, we write "ise" instead of "ize"!!!!! We're so unique"!"
Lol.
>> However, slang is not that indicative of anything. Imo, slang differs more between different generations than between different countries <<
I don't think so. Kids today use pretty much the same slang as they did when I was a little kid. I really don't notice any difference at all. Other than using netspeak more often in ordinary conversations not on the internet. Like "OMG LOL!" Can anyone else think of any examples? But British slang is very different. They say things like "bleeding" for bloody--I've never heard anyone use that here. Even "bloody" is considered a Briticism, even though many people use it. British people also say "ace" and "cheers", which I have never heard here except when giving a toast. Also they say "bloke" instead of "guy"; "minty" instead of awesome, "hobey-ho" for "let's go", and "natty-do" for a "showstopper".
I don't think so. Kids today use pretty much the same slang as they did when I was a little kid. I really don't notice any difference at all. Other than using netspeak more often in ordinary conversations not on the internet. Like "OMG LOL!" Can anyone else think of any examples? But British slang is very different. They say things like "bleeding" for bloody--I've never heard anyone use that here. Even "bloody" is considered a Briticism, even though many people use it. British people also say "ace" and "cheers", which I have never heard here except when giving a toast. Also they say "bloke" instead of "guy"; "minty" instead of awesome, "hobey-ho" for "let's go", and "natty-do" for a "showstopper".
In the last month I've met six Brits at work, all of them unfortunately endowed with a standard, southern, slightly estuary accent which was quite boring, save for an Irishman who was really very sweet. Far more interesting were the South Africans who had some funky lingo which I didn't always understand.
Then (and perhaps this was these people exiled in the middle of nowhere getting to me) I was filling an order form and accidentally stuck a u in color. Nobody ever noticed.
Then (and perhaps this was these people exiled in the middle of nowhere getting to me) I was filling an order form and accidentally stuck a u in color. Nobody ever noticed.
>> e) I was filling an order form and accidentally stuck a u in color. Nobody ever noticed <<
My personal conventions are as follows:
Colour
Realize
Centre
Traveller
Enrol
I put a "." after Mr. Dr. &c.
I use double quotation marks, not single
I have, not I have got
That's how I do things. People can either accept it or not, because that's what I use no matter which English-speaking country I'm in.
My personal conventions are as follows:
Colour
Realize
Centre
Traveller
Enrol
I put a "." after Mr. Dr. &c.
I use double quotation marks, not single
I have, not I have got
That's how I do things. People can either accept it or not, because that's what I use no matter which English-speaking country I'm in.
>>Moreover, I believe that Coastal Southern dialects, in particular, are closer to Received Pronunciation than they are to Upper Midwestern English.<<
One thing I should note is that while more easterly North American English dialects tend to be less standard than those spoken in the Lower Midwest, they seem to reflect more older dialect variation within English as a whole than Upper Midwestern dialects, which seem to reflect newer dialect variation, being seemingly descended from a proto-dialect not far from General American (with only some limited differences from such, such as unambiguously distinguishing unstressed intervocalic /t/ and /d/ where modern GA has all but neutralized them). Hence very many non-standard features of Upper Midwestern dialects are likely to simply not exist in more conservative English dialects such as those of eastern New England; one might even say that Upper Midwestern dialects are probably the English dialects furthest removed from those spoken in the British Isles overall at the time of the colonization of the eastern seaboard.
One thing I should note is that while more easterly North American English dialects tend to be less standard than those spoken in the Lower Midwest, they seem to reflect more older dialect variation within English as a whole than Upper Midwestern dialects, which seem to reflect newer dialect variation, being seemingly descended from a proto-dialect not far from General American (with only some limited differences from such, such as unambiguously distinguishing unstressed intervocalic /t/ and /d/ where modern GA has all but neutralized them). Hence very many non-standard features of Upper Midwestern dialects are likely to simply not exist in more conservative English dialects such as those of eastern New England; one might even say that Upper Midwestern dialects are probably the English dialects furthest removed from those spoken in the British Isles overall at the time of the colonization of the eastern seaboard.
Note that I mean of English dialects without any level of creolization having taken place, as many English dialects spoken in areas like the Caribbean and probably further from colonial-period dialects in the English Isles, but they have had influence from creolization at at least some point whereas Upper Midwestern dialects are completely uncreolized despite the massive amount of settlement by non-English-speaking peoples in the Upper Midwest.
The most disadvantaged, the most marginalised, members of British society are young, urban black males - they really are in a class of their own here in the UK, so to speak, and most don't seem to want to break away from that situation.
This section of British society features very prominently in the violent crime, unemployment and educational under-achievement statistics - by a very long way.
Every large urban/metropolitan area in the UK has such sections in the population, but in particular London is very much a focal point for this, and this group is very much concentrated in certain areas of the whole metropolitan area, and what's more they make every effort to maintain their own kind of "ghetto-speak" which seems to be a mix of Caribbean creole type lingo and a form of London type Estuary.
I've listened to groups of such blokes while travelling on the tube outside the normal rush hour periods - best tube lines for this are the Northern and Victoria lines, and best times are towards late evening, and it's fun to hear them chatter away in London ghetto-speak type Language.
I suppose it's the same situation, for example, in cities like Birmingham or Manchester (where the Moss Side area of the city is virtually an entire Caribbean ghetto all of its own)....both cities with huge immigrant concentrations - Carib Creole mixed in with Brummie and Mancunian - lovely! ;-)
Of course it certainly doesn't apply to ALL young black males - some actually speak quite "posh" RP, or plain Estuary, or plain Brummie, Glaswegian or Mancunian - if all you heard was a recording of their voices you'd have no idea at all about their racial grouping.
The various UK Police forces actually use different codes for the different races for identification purposes in communications - IC1, IC2, IC3 and IC4 - in which IC stands for Identification Code.
This section of British society features very prominently in the violent crime, unemployment and educational under-achievement statistics - by a very long way.
Every large urban/metropolitan area in the UK has such sections in the population, but in particular London is very much a focal point for this, and this group is very much concentrated in certain areas of the whole metropolitan area, and what's more they make every effort to maintain their own kind of "ghetto-speak" which seems to be a mix of Caribbean creole type lingo and a form of London type Estuary.
I've listened to groups of such blokes while travelling on the tube outside the normal rush hour periods - best tube lines for this are the Northern and Victoria lines, and best times are towards late evening, and it's fun to hear them chatter away in London ghetto-speak type Language.
I suppose it's the same situation, for example, in cities like Birmingham or Manchester (where the Moss Side area of the city is virtually an entire Caribbean ghetto all of its own)....both cities with huge immigrant concentrations - Carib Creole mixed in with Brummie and Mancunian - lovely! ;-)
Of course it certainly doesn't apply to ALL young black males - some actually speak quite "posh" RP, or plain Estuary, or plain Brummie, Glaswegian or Mancunian - if all you heard was a recording of their voices you'd have no idea at all about their racial grouping.
The various UK Police forces actually use different codes for the different races for identification purposes in communications - IC1, IC2, IC3 and IC4 - in which IC stands for Identification Code.