On genitive antecedants.

<<My criticism of some of the learners of English as a Foreign Language is that they have very academic interest in English grammar and no interest in English culture as expressed in English spoken and written. I believe that one of the things that I can offer is an insight into English and indeed British life. >>


You're forgetting that the majority of English learners do not learn English because they have an interest in English culture or British life. I learnt English so I could read engineering textbooks written by Americans/Chinese/German/French and yes, maybe a few British people. Britain as a country though is not even on the radar.

Antimoon is a discussion forum on the English language. Although there is a Moderator in practice it often appears to be unmoderated. As far as I am concerned, there is space for people to discuss pronunciation, grammar, culture and technical jargon. I helped an Indonesian woman through Livemocha.com describe her job by finding the correct English to describe various technical processes. She was able to produce something that gave me a clue as to what she did. I was then able to look things up on Google, and put it in a form that was much easier to understand.

To give you an example: The title of this topic; "On genitive antecedants", this is an example of 'technical English' or jargon describing the English language. I examined what the individual words meant, and in so doing found a spelling mistake. I then looked up 'genitive antecedents' on Google. I found there was very little information which suggested that it was an obscure expression. I then read an article and formed an opinion. I then posted my opinion with a reference to the article that I had read.

So what do I get out of it?

As you can appreciate just reading a book on English grammar can be very dull. I just find it interesting to see what problems people actually come up against.

I have wondered what it is that I do get out of it?

Like a lot of British cities there are a lot of foreigners about. I am probably less likely to help the Indian person selling petrol than the person learning English in India. To a certain extent I am interested in other countries and cultures.

I am sure that by taking an interest in English and looking up articles, writing posts, checking my spelling etc I am also improving my own English and developing skills.

I have sometimes replied to someone on livemocha.com and thought that my reply was very good. I have looked something up and found something interesting. So although I have replied to one person in the first instance, I have then thought that this is something that I can post in antimoon under a topic heading, so that more people can see what I have written and comment if they want to.

I was a bit naughty with my 'Why is Scotland shite?" topic. I was annoyed by the shoddy service I received from Megabus and I thought that I would give my experience maximum exposure. Scottish people are very nationalistic and proud of being Scottish. If people from 'Visit Scotland' and 'Megabus' see someone describing Scotland as shite, they might be tempted to improve the service. Also I get very fed up with Scottish people saying how great Scotland is, often in complete ignorance of other countries and places. When I was in Germany I found that generally standards were much higher and of course the climate was much better.

Robin Michael, did you mean, "I found there was very little information, which suggested that it was an obscure expression." when you wrote "I found there was very little information which suggested that it was an obscure expression."

"I found there was very little information, which suggested that it was an obscure expression."

"I found there was very little information which suggested that it was an obscure expression."

What is the difference between these two sentences?



The first sentence has a comma after 'information'.

So this is really a comment about 'comma use' or punctuation.




I used to dislike English at school. I felt that the teacher was more interested in how I said something, than in what I was saying. Consequently I found it an extremely boring and tedious subject with teachers who were self righteous and opinionated. In fact, it seemed to me that there were no right or wrong answers; you just had to agree with the teacher.

First of all, I would like to say that punctuation is to a certain extent a question of style. That different people have different opinions about whether or not, a certain type of punctuation is needed. (I could look up punctuation in Wikipedia but I will press on.) Generally speaking you use a comma when you pause for breath. However there are some people who believe that in an ideal world one should not use punctuation. Generally I find that I am inclined to use too much punctuation, particularly when I go back and correct what I have written. As a final note, I find that the Microsoft Spell checker is not much help in this area.

when you pause for breath.

when you pause for breathe.


breath: with or without the 'e'


pause to breath

pause for breathe


Sometimes I wonder if I am dyxlexic?

breathe - to breathe

Yet another funny word


http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/breathe

<So this is really a comment about 'comma use' or punctuation.>

It's about relative clauses.

"I found there was very little information, which suggested that it was an obscure expression."

The near absence of information shows that it IS an obscure expression.

"I found there was very little information which suggested that it was an obscure expression."

There was not much evidence to prove it is NOT an obscure expression. Therefore, it is not obscure.

***I was rather disappointed that Damian did not make a more spirited defence of Scotland the brave under my topic heading "Why is Scotland shite?"***

Right, my wee Sassenach friend - where would you like me to begin then? If I had a quid for each occasion I've defended my Scottish homeland with spirit and passion in the face of an English onslaught of slings and arrows then I'd have my Roman archaeological trip to Libya in November fully paid for - with enough left over for a good night out back home in Auld Reekie.

I've read every single one of your comments about your living amongst us in Scotland and up there in the Granite City and duly noted everything you had to say about us and our part of the UK. You have every right to say what you like, as I've had a fair old dig at England and the English now and again over the time I've been contributing to Antimoon and on a forum really meant for Language discussion, and the English Language in particular in this section, I've been conscious of the fact that I've strayed well away from the basic subject matter of this Forum. I'm afraid that's a failing common to people who simply enjoy using our Language, whether verbally or in text, as in here.

All I will say now is that some of your observations are justified - Scotland does have its faults, but it most certainly has plenty going for it, too.

I mean - why oh why do so many foreigners* visit Scotland every year, and do so again and again on further occasions, and why is the Edinburgh International Festival one of the most successful of its kind in the entire world, with people flocking to my home city from all parts of the world every August for this event alone, and while in the beautiful city of Edinburgh they have a fantastic time enjoying everything it has to offer, including all the very many aspects of the Festival and especially the Fringe with its wide range of attractions featuring many famous entertainers, many of whom started their careers at the Edinburgh Fringe of the International Festival.

I intend to be back home in Edinburgh several times next month, and will make sure I'm there for Cavalcade and the fireworks party when the Festival ends for another year......almost as good as Hogmanay.

There, Robin - is that spirited enough?

Slains!

*Why oh why are there SO many English people living in Scotland anyway, including yourself? Edinburgh is full of them who have taken up permanent residence in and around the city. Obviously they know a good thing when they see it! ;-)

As I've said before in here anybody who bears any kind of grudge or aversion to any country, including Scotland and Britain as a whole, can simply stay away altogether, or if here already, then the local people here will be more than happy to show them the way to the nearest airport or ferry terminal for their outward journey back to where they belong. ;-) We're over crowded enough as it is with all the people who've chosen to stay - legally or otherwise, and thankfully the UK Border Agency and Immigration Services are apparently having a lot of success in packing off to their real homelands all those not entitled to be here for whatever reason.

For those from abroad who may, just may, be thinking of visiting Britain right now I'd just like to say that we are having horrible weather right now after a short spell of hot sunny weather while Wimbdon was on......it's cool and raining a lot of the time, so maybe you need to think twice and head for somewhere else where fine weather is guaranteed.....something that can never be said for the UK....tomorrow may be a nice, sunny and completelydry day, but chances are it won't be! ;-)

Genitive antecedents.......Boots the Chemists currently have these on special offer...worth a try if they are bothering you. You may even get them on prescription but that will cost you £7.20 unless you're old or pregnant or live in Wales.

>>pause to breath

pause for breathe


Sometimes I wonder if I am dyxlexic?<<


You HOPE you're dyslexic.

Dear Fizz

I am not quite sure what point you are making. I think it is along the lines of 'Eats shoots and leaves'. I have the book but as you might have noticed I have not read it yet.

Dear Damian

I have lived in North Wales and the North East of Scotland. In both places the indigenous population - shall we call them 'natives' - have their own peculiar language. They feel that their language is being destroyed by the large influx of 'incomers' or is in 'inner booters'. Some strange expressions that you are probably not familiar with. You may be familiar with the expression 'White Settlers' and you may be aware that several holiday homes in North Wales have been set on fire.

The reality is that 'new people' cause new problems all over the world.


To the anonymous person

I knew I was letting myself in for trouble when I made a remark about dyxlexia; sorry dyslexia.

I saw a funny article in the local paper - the Press and Journal. In the Editorial, the writer commented that 'Jordan' s husband (Jordan is a simple woman with large breasts) must have been attracted by her books'.

Of course, the word 'books' is very similar in appearance to the word 'boobs' which is used a lot in the tabloid press to describe 'breasts'. The British papers are full of words with double meanings. They employ Sub-Editors to check that headlines do not have double meanings. The result being that the Sub-Editors write headlines that have double meanings that people find amusing.

On a more serious note, there are some words which seem very straight forward - Tom.

T - o - m

Most English people would have no difficulty in spelling this word. But there are other words which do not seem to make sense in quite the same way.

When I looked at the word 'breath' for some reason it did seem to elicit the response 'br - ea - th' in my mind.

But I will not dwell on this. There are books of 'commonly mispelled words' available and there are probably reasons why all these words are mispelt. Such as mispelling 'were' for 'where' or visa versa.

Robin, before you read "Eats...", read about the way we use relative clauses in English.

<<I am not quite sure what point you are making. I think it is along the lines of 'Eats shoots and leaves'. I have the book but as you might have noticed I have not read it yet. >>


Fizz meant that these two sentences have completely different (and quite opposite) meanings:
1. I found there was very little information, which suggested that it was an obscure expression.
2. I found there was very little information which suggested that it was an obscure expression."

<<

Fizz meant that these two sentences have completely different (and quite opposite) meanings:

1. I found there was very little information, which suggested that it was an obscure expression.

2. I found there was very little information which suggested that it was an obscure expression."

>>






Sorry, can you spell this out - unpack this for me?

To me, both these sentences have exactly the same meaning.