Why isn’t German very popular? (copied)

blanc   Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:07 am GMT
FRech is also becoming a REgional language. French and German are studied less and less in the STates, Curiously the learning of Italian, Chinese and Arabic is increasing constantly in the US..
Zorro   Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:01 am GMT
"I don't care about population at all when considering both German and French. I didn't follow your logic and learn French first"

It is not my logic. It is the reality. French and Spanish are official in United Nations and German NOT. French and Spanish have a higher status as Diplomatic languages.

The demographic factor is also a reality. All experts in languages say that in a Global World, languages like Chinese, Spanish, Arabic and Portuguese will be more important globally in the near future. And other languages like German or Japanese a little less. French depends on the situation in old French Africa.



"if you take a reductionist view, the Chinese still outnumber almost all peoples all. Why do I need a foreign language then?"

I can say the same. If you take a reductionist view and you don't consider important the demographic factor, Norwegian can be a very important language in your opinion, even Maltese...

Well, there is only a Global language, English. You can use from UK to Poland (in all European Union). After English, there are big regional languages like Chinese, Spanish or Arabic, important in their influence area.

That is not only my logic. It is the logic of all experts in languages:

"English is no longer the ‘only show in town’. Other languages now challenge the dominance of English in some regions. Mandarin and Spanish, especially, have become sufficiently important to be influencing national policy priorities in some countries."

English next. David Graddol. British Council.
http://www.britishcouncil.org/learning-research-english-next.pdf


"The changing status of languages will create a new language hierarchy for the World. In comparison with the present-day hierarchy, there are more languages in the top layer. Spanish, Chinese, Hindi-Urdu and Arabic can join English. French and other OCDE languages (German, Japanese) are likely to decline in status"

The future of English?. David Graddol. British Council.
http://www.britishcouncil.org/learning-elt-future.pdf
Xie   Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:31 pm GMT
>>It is not my logic. It is the reality. French and Spanish are official in United Nations and German NOT. French and Spanish have a higher status as Diplomatic languages.<<

So what? Chinese is also official but practically useless in most international organizations except those where my country has a stake in. This doesn't bother me at all. The absence of German in most places won't probably bother the Germans by the same logic. I don't have to speak a UN language natively or learn one in order to be someone. In fact, I don't really. I told you so. Very very people really few UN languages AS UN languages in real life. This is MY logic.

I'm not strictly against Spanish. I'm just hardly interested in it at the moment. But I don't like the fact that all the people are claiming just how hot it is and why you should learn it. If you like it, go ahead, but please don't claim to everybody that they should learn just because there are far more Hispanics than everybody else except the Indians and Chinese. Likewise, for German.

Worse still, this kind of gibberish is spreading everywhere. Even in Hong Kong, people keep on talking again and again about just how hot Spanish is. If it's about hot Latinas, the beaches, the scenery, the food, the music, I'd say this is good and I might even be tempted to try Spanish one day. But if you say there are 300 million something Hispanics in the Western hemisphere.... oh, come on, I won't see them unless I travel in those places, and I don't strictly need Spanish in order to travel.

But with such a fad, probably Spanish can be even more popular than my Chinese, given its relative simplicity for the average Anglophones and many native speakers of others.
fraz   Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:42 pm GMT
German is still a major language in central and eastern Europe. There are millions of people for whom German is a second language ahead of English. Granted, things are changing with the seemingly unstoppable march of English but German is by no means ready for the scrap-heap just yet.
Woozle   Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:27 pm GMT
The truth of the matter is, Spanish is used as an international language ONLY between Spanish-speaking countries. Ditto for Chinese. Ditto for Arabic.

English currently is the only true global lingua franca in the sense that it is the only language that is commonly used between non-native speakers in all corners of the world to communicate with each other. Spanish, Arabic and Chinese are used internationally almost exclusively by native speakers.

There are many other regional linguae francae, of course, but they're not among the above. They're Swahili, Tok Pisin and other such creole languages.

So, what other languages are widely studied in the world to communicate with the NON-NATIVE speakers of these languages? I think French is pretty much dead as a lingua franca. It is studied only by people interested in France and the French culture. I think the same equally applies to German.
Guest   Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:32 pm GMT
The truth of the matter is, Spanish is used as an international language ONLY between Spanish-speaking countries.


Brazil uses Spanish too as this country is member of Mercosur.
Invitado   Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:48 pm GMT
Spanish is very studied in United States, Brazil and France, for example. The lingua franca between an American and a Brazilian can be perfectly Spanish.

When I did business with Miami (USA), the lingua franca was Spanish, even with Anglos. It was amazing! They speak very good Spanish. So, it was very easy.

It is also very studied in Morocco, Israel, Germany, Sweden, Italy, United Kingdom, etc

In the last 5 years, I see more Portuguese, French and Eastern Europeans speaking Spanish.
Shuimo   Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:53 pm GMT
What is the lingua franca in Antarctica?
Woozle   Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:57 pm GMT
"Brazil uses Spanish too as this country is member of Mercosur."

Perhaps, but they use it to speak to native Spanish speakers, which was the point I was trying to make. When a German guy meets with a Japanese guy, they speak English. Not Chinese. When a Nigerian guy meets with an Indonesian guy, they speak English. Not Arabic.

So, what other languages are used for international communication when the language is not native to BOTH parties in a conversation?
Jose Cuervo   Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:57 pm GMT
<<Spanish is very studied in United States>>

Miami is an exception. Spanish is not "studied" in the US, it is "taken" in schools because it is an easy grade to achieve. That's the only reason. When the grade is accomplished, Spanish is immediately forlet.


<<In the last 5 years, I see more Portuguese, French and Eastern Europeans speaking Spanish. >>

Keep hittin' that pipe dude
Woozle   Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:59 pm GMT
What is the lingua franca in Antarctica?

Penguinese
Leasnam   Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:00 pm GMT
<<So, what other languages are used for international communication when the language is not native to BOTH parties in a conversation? >>

German can be used, especially between native germanic speakers where one or both knows no English (say a Icelander and a Dutchman)

or in Eastern Europe when English is not understood by one party
American Heroe   Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:07 pm GMT
What is the lingua franca in Antarctica?


The most spoken language in Antarctica is English followed by Spanish. At least ten children have been born in West Antarctica, all from Argentina or Chile.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Antarctica
Guest   Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:15 pm GMT
<<Perhaps, but they use it to speak to native Spanish speakers, which was the point I was trying to make. When a German guy meets with a Japanese guy, they speak English. Not Chinese. When a Nigerian guy meets with an Indonesian guy, they speak English. Not Arabic.

>>
Well, at least one of the sides is not Spanish speaker, contrarily to what you suggested : "Spanish is used as an international language ONLY between Spanish-speaking countries".

I 'm not sure but perhaps if Philippines wants to do business with Brazil both sides may use Spanish too. I heard about Philippines' intention to make closer economic ties with Hispanic America.
A more original name   Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:21 pm GMT
At least we have all the Continents! The two most spoken languages in all of them are:

Africa: Arabic, English

Antarctica: English, Spanish

Asia: Chinese, Hindi

Europe: English, Russian

Latin America: Spanish, Portuguese

North America: English, Spanish

Australasia & Pacific: Indonesian, English