The Chomskyan doctrine and foreign accents
idiot,
Almost all accent reduction professionals are in the business of fixing common mistakes L2 learners commit. They usually teach English sounds and where L2 phones come in your way. Then, they focus on stress, rhythm/reduced forms, and intonation. Once you have spent 20 classes with such a trainer, you are done with it.
My advice for you is this: master phonetics (just abstract sounds), then focus on fast speech phonology. Also focus on your L1 phonetics and phonology: that is, try to understand your L1, that way you can get to know where L1 is interfering your L2.
Those who moved to canada in their 10's, L1 doesn't interfere much. Once you are past 20, L1 comes in your way; that's why you need to train your ear to observe all nuances in english speech: this is where you should expend energies.
Spend time on this exercise as well: if you are given a new gybberish word, predict the stress and pronounce it. For instance, aptrology vs astrology; aptrological vs astrological. To deal with this kind of scenarios, you need to master phonology.
I have seen many L2 speakers, who have almost acheived native-like accent. But they fail in the scenarios like the above, since the accent-reduction specialists just show you first steps and leave you there. After those baby-steps, you need to put special efforts in acquiring all petty details of English phonology.
I listened to this L2 billionaire, who speaks like L1. But he exhibits foreign accent at many places; one example being "no yod-dropping" after alveolars, as he lives in california.
Here are the types of errors that showed up in the assessment:
"has" - she said the vowel was "too broad"... I'm not sure if it's because I said "h[e@]s" (like in some American dialects, but virtually unheard of in Canada) or because I lost the vowel when it was unstressed... Does anyone know exactly what a "broad" vowel is? By the way, when she repeated the word, I took a swing at it, and she said "now it's fine"... So much for the error being permanent.
"shoes" - the vowel was too long. I don't see how it's unfixable, but it might be hard to get it right every single time...
"really" - I pronounced it as "rilly"... But I don't have that problem with the word "relay", and I think I must have picked it up from something other than first-language interference. Some Southerners (e.g. Ron Paul) pronounce it that way from time to time, and it may have registered in my brain after listening to podcasts. But in reality, I'm perfectly capable of saying it both ways.
together - the "e" was "off". That one might be tough, but I'll try to fix it anyway - on my own...
Again, regardless of whether I'm capable of actually sounding like a native, I don't see anything about these particular errors that would characterize them as being "etched in stone". And in reality, all I was trying to do was to go after the obvious ones.
I was 15 when I moved to Canada... I started learning the language much earlier than that, but 90% of all input I got prior to moving to Canada was garbage... So I went through a stage when I had to unlearn and relearn a lot of what I thought I knew already.
idiot,
here is a tip for stressing short vowels, which many accent-reduction specialists are not aware of: for instance, in to 'geth er, release /g/ slowly, that way you create the illusion that /e/ is longer.
Read "The amazing power of consonants" in "voice power" by renee grant-williams. You can read that chapter freely from books.google and amazon.
Broad vowel could be a CAT vowel and something like that. Most of the time, the phonetic output of has is "uz"
In the case of 'shoes', you can expect /u:/ because of /z/ (allophonic vowel length). I don't see any issue here.
In the case of 'really', you can expect a geminate l, as it is called sonorant gemination. Read C.-J Bailey's paper on sonorant gemination.
Accent reduction industry is full of algorithmic folks, meaning that they can work within what they know. Don't expect much from them :)
>>The extent of the critical period in second-language acquisition is hotly debated, and many researches are trying to somehow reconcile their existing knowledge with new findings in neuroplasticity... However, I'm under the impression that most people (including professionals) have a very simplistic understanding of critical-period effects... [...] <<
In fact, what actually confuses me most is how come people still believe in this sort of biological shit that you can't do something, which isn't anything bodily, for biological reasons. By common sense, you need healthy legs to run. Legless people can't run. But also by common sense, if you can learn something, it must also be doable. Vowels and consonants are even far easier than learning to run, amputee athletes included.
>>If that is the case, then why wouldn't it be possible to perfect a new language even as an adult? It might be harder, because the growth rate does slow down, but it's surely not impossible. <<
In fact,
1) daily-life pressure, such as making a living which takes time
2) cultural, racial, social prejudices
3) limited time
are far more detrimental than biological concerns to second language acquisition.
Xie
"Do - able"
I struggled to understand this sentence:
<<if you can learn something, it must also be doable. Vowels and consonants are even far easier than learning to run, amputee athletes included.>>
This expression 'do - able' is more often heard in speech than seen in type.
Really isn't pronounced as "rilly"? News to me! Because I hear that all the time in normal speech. Far more often then I hear something like, say, "ree-ly".
>>This expression 'do - able' is more often heard in speech than seen in type. <<
I write whatever I want, as long as it doesn't violate forum rules. Who are you to speak of writing?
GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON GO BACK TO AFRICA COON
Xie
_________________________________________________________
>>This expression 'do - able' is more often heard in speech than seen in type. <<
I write whatever I want, as long as it doesn't violate forum rules. Who are you to speak of writing?
__________________________________________________________
Dear Xie,
You can write what ever you want. Some people here write obscenities. It seems a shame there is no way of removing these posts. However what I was trying to point out to you, is that there is no such word as 'doable'. There is an expression 'do - able'. However to write a word 'doable' is to confuse people.
I could have picked on many errors in your writing which makes it difficult to read and comprehend. My objective was not to belittle you, but just to point out one mistake that you had made.
I do appreciate that you are not a native speaker.
I could have picked on many errors in your writing that makes your writing difficult to read and comprehend.
Why not double check your writing with Microsoft Word before you post?
Courtesy of Cambridge ALD:
doable /du.ə.bl ̩/ adjective
If something is doable, it can be achieved or performed
This project may be difficult, but I still think it's doable.
It looks implausible, but it does exist in at least one mainstream dictionary.
Guys, let's focus back on the topic...
Doable is a word I hear on an everyday basis. If a dictionary says it doesn't exist then you shouldn't trust that dictionary...
I agree. Doable is a common word, Xie. Feel free to use it.