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The American Happy Ending
AS far as historical accuracy, there have certainly been films that portraid a romanticized version for whatever reason. I remember the British reaction to "The Patriot", the criticism of which was well deserved. Yet, I think that this has certainly been a subjects that Hollywood has endeavored to correct in recent years. I think "Hotel Rwanda" and "John Adams" are good examples of American film maker's efforts on this front. I cannot sing the praises of HBO's "John Adams" enough. There are parts that are e dramatized. For instance, putting a thunderstorm in a particularly dramatic part of the film. But the accuracy and the deromanticization of the American Revolution really makes the film great.
John Adams:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epe7dteo5Gg&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeHepBjAyS0&feature=channel
Damian: ".I really DO like the accent of the American South - "
Damian, the accent used in "Streetcar..." is a dying one. You're not likely to hear it in the American South unless you get really lucky in terms of visiting the right geographic locations.
That being said, I can see why you like the accent. That variety, as well as its better known cousin, Inland Southern Dialect, is derived, to a large part, from the Scots-Irish who settled the area. In a way, Damian, they are your own people; is it any wonder that you feel a certain je ne sais quoi?
Funny enough, the dialects sound downright nasty to a lot of other Americans...
The Robin Michael-Damian view of the US is analogous to the "bowler hat + tea with the Queen" view of the UK.
Stereotypes in a cliché marinade.
G - many people do take tea with the Queen so that part of your perceived Brit type stereotypical image statement still holds sway today - but you are right about the "bowler hat" thing - it is indeed am image of Britain (well, England anyway) which has long since been placed on display in the British Museum. Very few British men commuting to work on the 07:50 train from Woking to Waterloo wear a hat these days and if they do they must be close to retirement age, and it's very, very unlikely to be a bowler anyway.
Jasper - thanks for the info - we really do learn something new every day. So if we Scots and the Irish had some historical influence in the American Deep South it's quite likely that I may well feel some kind of innate kinship among the local folks should I ever find myself there in the future? That would be really exciting.
My next trip abroad is to Libya in just under three weeks' time - a mate of mine has enticed me into joining the Royal Association for Roman Archaelology and we shall be part of a group of eccentric nutters visiting all the ancient Roman sites between Tripoli and Benghazi.....as long as it won't be as hot as it was when we went all the way down the Nile in Egypt, from Alexandria all the way down to Aswan, I shall be fine.....I was never designed or programmed for hot climates and that's for sure!
Maybe my next foreign venture after that (discounting Continental Europe which isn't foreign any more for Brits, especially now that the Lisbon Treaty has been passed into law within the EU - we are all now one "Nationality!") - will be to the Deep South of America so that I can meet up with my kinfolks....will they be able to understand a present day soft and mellifluous Edinburgh accent? I hope so as I promise to speak slowly while I'm over there. ;-)
Damian, your questions require a detailed post; I beg your patience.
My understanding is that while the Scots-Irish immigrated all over the East, the heaviest concentration settled in the Appalachian mountains. This fact is said to be reflected in the speech patterns of the area.
I grew up on the isogloss between Appalachian English and Inland Southern English, and I can tell you that there is a marked difference between the two dialects, obvious in the first few sentences. It is said that the further back into the hills one goes, the stronger the influence of the Scots-Irish in the speech.
You asked if Southerners could easily understand an Edinburgh accent. Well, I can answer this one round-about. I was dining with some English friends at an Indian restaurant once, when a Scotsman came up to the table to chat. After he left, the English people asked me,"Could you understand a single word he said?" I replied, "I understood every single word." This implies that there is a considerable similarity between Inland Southern English and Scots English—a closer relation than between British and Scots English, at least. Indeed, I have very little if any trouble understanding standard Scottish English, although some of the more extreme dialects are admittedly more opaque. ("Trainspotting", anyone?)
All this being said, I don't know what you, with your Scotsman English ear, will hear when you first encounter Appalachian English. You with your Scots English ears will necessarily hear different sounds than I did with my SIE ears, but I would venture to guess that you'll easily understand them, and they you.
Uriel once posited some valuable insights regarding the zeitgeist of the people; I think she'd be a better person to ask about that than I. (I'm too close to the eye of the hurricane to be able to see it objectively.) I would venture to say, however, that if you do visit, you will find an almost overly friendly people (strangers will wave "hello" to you on the street) whose attitudes point much more to the past than to the present; discretion regarding your personal life will be a "must", Damian.
As for specific areas? You could try Crossville, TN, or Oneida, TN—or if you want to snatch a glimpse at a people with a strange, mysterious history, Sneedville, TN, to see the Melungeons. (Google it.) Stay away from the bigger cities—too much "ferriner" influence there. ;)
(By the way, some hillbillies roll their "r"s ;) )
<<(discounting Continental Europe which isn't foreign any more for Brits, especially now that the Lisbon Treaty has been passed into law within the EU - we are all now one "Nationality!")>>
Disgusting! Better bring the troops back from Afghanistan, soon we'll be facing our own insurgency!
Jasper - very many thanks for all that interesting information - it would take more than a lifetime to see everything in America....so much to see. If Stephen Fry spoke very highly about the American people he met on his travels through each and everyone of the 50 States and enjoyed every minute of it no doubt I would do so as well....some day.
I'm so relieved to hear that my Edinburgh accent will be generally understood in America.....I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be if I was a Glaswegian though! I'd bet my next salary payment on that one!
Rest assured, Jasper - I'm fully aware of what much of rural and provincial and Middle America is like and what attitudes exist there - if I ever get there some day I will pay due respects and will exercise the utmost discretion but I will not be carrying a Bible, that would be a step too far, maybe.
In any case, regarding my "private life", nobody would ever suspect anyway, they never do.....it often comes as a wee bit of a surprise to some people. I breathe sports and outdoor pursuits, and although very slim and slight in build I love playing rugby (not so keen on the getting hurt bit though but it's all in the game, so to speak!).
I've played and watched rugby ever since my early school days....prioer to going to uni down in England I attended the same school/college here in Edinburgh as did former PM Tony Blair, now prospective President of the European Union, would you credit it, a highly contentious issue here in the UK generally!
My family home is just a couple of miles away from the Murrayfield Stadium here in Edinburgh and on international game days we can hear the roar of 70,000 plus voices from where we live......to hear "O Flower of Scotland" being belted out by the Scottish fans and blowing over to us at home on the wind always brings a lump to my throat...that's on the rare(ish) occasions when I'm not in the crowd myself.
You can hear a wee bit of "Flower of Scotland" on this YT clip which features a group of Scottish supporters enjoying themselves over in Paris where Scotland was playing against France. There is a very strong bond between the Scots and the French - the "Auld Alliance" as it's called - goes right back to our beloved Mary (Marie) Queen of Scots, a fluent French speaker who married Francis, the French Dauphin, and who was beheaded by the English on the instructions of England's Queen Elizabeth I in 1587, something the English Queen bitterly regretted when it was too late. RIP.
These guys are outside a Scottish pub in Paris.....I've actually been in there myself but not with fellow Scottish supporters....just one Scottish mate.
The French public adore the Scottish fans - although very boisterous and rowdy they are invariably well behaved and - unlike the English who often cause bother!!! - it's so much an "English thing". The Scottish rugby fans do NOT get so drunk that they cause trouble.
My fellow countrymen in Paris.....O Flower of Scotland!":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjua-Whmls0&feature=fvw
Euroskeptic: Why the k? Are you a closet American then? if so, what right do you have to sport that handle, whichever way you spell it? Like it or lump it, the Lisbon Treaty has now been fully ratified, and signed, sealed and delivered.....Europeans all. Hells bells, pal, we all have European Union passports now, don't we? If you DO live here - just live with it! ;-)
Bonsoir! Guten abend! Buona sera!
<<Euroskeptic: Why the k? Are you a closet American then? if so, what right do you have to sport that handle, whichever way you spell it? Like it or lump it, the Lisbon Treaty has now been fully ratified, and signed, sealed and delivered.....Europeans all. Hells bells, pal, we all have European Union passports now, don't we? If you DO live here - just live with it! ;-)
Bonsoir! Guten abend! Buona sera! >>
Why should I live with it? There was once a time when in the West we fought to the death to oppose things like this. The Euroskeptics are not going anywhere. They are going to fight to the end.
Damian: two additional things I'd like to add...
I don't know if you know anything about bluegrass music, but it's a direct product of the Scots-Irish in Appalachia. People who generally despise country music sometimes take quite a liking to bluegrass, because of its upbeat, happy tone.
Another thing—a question, really. I wonder if there's a youtube of a Glaswegian? I'd like to hear it. How much you wanna bet that I can understand some, or even all of it? I have different ears from most Americans. ;) If you could direct me to such a video, I'd be much obliged.
"discretion regarding your personal life will be a "must", Damian."
"Rest assured, Jasper - I'm fully aware of what much of rural and provincial and Middle America is like and what attitudes exist there - if I ever get there some day I will pay due respects and will exercise the utmost discretion but I will not be carrying a Bible, that would be a step too far, maybe.
In any case, regarding my "private life", nobody would ever suspect anyway, they never do.....it often comes as a wee bit of a surprise to some people. I breathe sports and outdoor pursuits, and although very slim and slight in build I love playing rugby (not so keen on the getting hurt bit though but it's all in the game, so to speak!)."
Damn, there's that bowler hat again.
Middle America and its bible--Honestly, I own one bible that I use for research when examining literary references. I also own a copy of The; a book by his Holiness, the Dolly Lama; a copy of the Koran; and a couple of books on nature religions. My sister is a practicing Rastafarian, my brother is Buddhist, my best friend Ryan is Wiccan, Amy and Emily are "spiritual" of some sort, my mother is Christian but one of her favorite quotes (by Ghandi) is "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ".
Really, I don't think you should have much of a problem in most of "Middle-America". You can go to Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland, St. Louis, Kansas City, Chicago, Detroit, Minneapolis, St. Paul, Madison, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Des Moines, Oklahoma City, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, New Orleans, Omaha, Lincoln, Denver, Fort Collins, Albuquerque, Boise, Los Vegas, and many, many more places in "Middle-America" without even having to bring a bible. We stopped using those for passports years ago. And, guess what, you can find a gay bar, even several gay bars in each of those places I just listed. It's not outer Mongolia, dear. It is the wealthiest and most powerful country on the planet. And, if you are still afraid, we will even let you carry a gun.
Having said that, I cannot really tell you what it is like for GLBT people in the Appalachian region, having only visited there once as a teen. The part of the United States that Jasper was referring to, by the way, is not generally what is referred to as Middle-America. It is what is called the South, and the Appellations run along the East coast of the United States. Thankfully for you, should you ever visit these places, there are sizable cities in the area which are not unused to foreigners, liberals, and homosexuals, oh my. Indeed, one of the world foremost Queer Theorists, Eve Sedgwick Kovalovsky, was a professor at Duke University which is located in the Appalachians of North Carolina. Also, should you be interested in visiting the northern Appalachians, you should stop by Amherst, Massachusetts, which is located in the part of the Appalachians called the Berkshires. The area played home to Hawthorne, Melville, and Dickinson, in its time.
If you have no problem going to Libya, you will be fine in any part of the United States you so wish to visit.
The Treaty of Lisbon is illegal. Ireland voted NO. So why did they repeat the referendum once again? The Euroburocrats pressed hard the few countries that said NO to the Treaty of Lisbon, so if they didn't want to lose the European funds they had to vote YES. Nasty trick. Is this democracy? I don't think voting under coercion is democracy. Plus, will they repeat the referendum once again? NO, cause the important thing is to repeat elections over and over if the result is contrary to what the Euroburocrats want. Now they have what they wanted. Good for them, bad for Europe.
Wow, many thanks for all that, Wintereis - now I can look forward to any future trip to America very much indeed - not so much on account of my "private life issue" but more because I know that the American people generally are very hospitable and friendly, wherever they live.
If that was Stephen Fry's experience then so I expect it will be mine, too, and just for the record Stephen Fry happens to be a gay man himself - not that that had the slightest bearing on his enjoyment travelling all over the entire United States driving a genuine London taxi cab, the steering wheel of which had been switched over from the right side of the vehicle to the left!
Jasper and the Glaswegian accent.....good luck, Jasper.
Here we see a wee bit of a problem for an American woman in Glasgow - quite brief but quite revealing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXGP4Sez_Us
Here we see BBC Radio Scotland's Glasgow reporter telling the BBC London anchorman all about the Glasgow East Westminster (London) based UK Parliamentary By-Election a wee while back...I'm pretty sure you can fully understand him but even though he is Glasgow born and bred he no way sounds like many a Glaswegian does, such as those from a less well educated background.....and there are many of those in East Glasgow, where this clip was filmed.
Most probably that Ned* you briefly saw in the background clutching his bottle of iron brew and gesticulating like the idiot he was would as likely as not have been far less intelligible to you, Jasper! I rekon you'd be just as perplexed as that lady compatriot of ours set loose on the streets of Glasgow city centre....I think we caught a brief glimpse of yet another muppet there but I'm not too sure about that....he looked as if he was trying to proposition a female passer by......sounds just like Glasgow to me! ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAieKn8qGmY&feature=related
*NED - the Scottish equivalent of a "CHAV" down in England - "Non Educable Delinquent" (Scot) and "Council Housed Adolescent Vermin" (Eng) - although I think there are other versions of the Chav acronym in England.
Goodnight from Intelligible Edinburgh - it's gone half past midnight here now and there's a tawny owl hooting outside.
My mistake - it was not the BBC TV featured on that YT clip - it was from TV Sky News...my apologies, not that it makes any difference to the issue in hand! Now it really is "goodnight" from me and it's "goodnight" from a Scottish tawny owl at 00:40hrs GMT standard time and winter season clocktime.
Damian: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIU4A2oPOUo&NR=1
I understood 80% or more of it. She's saying,"Oh, fuck, I don't know what to say...I'm going to go play my drums, play my wee heart out, in about five minutes now, etc."
I won't deny that it's harder to understand than the accents of, say, Colin Ferguson or Aggie (from How Clean is Your House), but at the same time, I understand most of it. :P
Winterreis -- sorry, dude! I must have had you mixed up with someone else.
And I can assure you, Damian, that gayness ain't no thang even in the depths of darkness here -- I've been dragged to no less than three gay bars in downtown El Paso, Texas-- in one night -- all of which were packed to the rafters! Nobody cares much anymore.
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