Question for Americans about the "flap t"
>>Lots of words have a D right after an N. It's not hard to get from one to the other at all. Say "ending" or "founder". They don't require the insertion of a vowel. Academics might quibble over exactly what a flapped T is, but most regular people hear it more or less as a D. <<
The D sound pronounced in "ending" and "founder" sounds different to a flap T. The D sound has a more definite quality which is why it appears usually at the beginning of words, isolated, whereas as a flap occurs between syllables.
I would never have a flapped T in "painting". I would either say the T or omit it altogether -- "paining".
socal guy, if "banner" != "banter" and "ninety" != "niny", what is the difference? Do you pronounce a normal T or the nasalized flap t that I described?
"Kensington Palace" is wrong.
At 1:32 the guy says "painting."
Then at 1:44 and 1:46, he says "paining."
He never flaps the t, like "painding."
Some people say "dennist" but nobody says "dendist."
>>if "banner" != "banter" and "ninety" != "niny", what is the difference? Do you pronounce a normal T or the nasalized flap t that I described? <<
if they became homophones, which would seem to require the T to be elided, like in dentist as dennist, the only difference would be from context for me.
i use normal T for banter and usually flap T for ninety, but neither normal or flap for banner and niny.
socal guy:
Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. I meant if your "banner" is different from "banter" and your "ninety" is different from "niny" (as you wrote), what is the difference? Do you pronounce a normal T in "banter" and "ninety" or do you pronounce the nasalized flap t that I described?
My guess is you pronounce "ninety" something like "nidy", except the /d/ is nasalized (the air coming out of your nose is the only thing left of the /n/).
Something like this:
http://www.antimoon.com/temp/flap-t-nasal-in-cepd.mp3
http://www.antimoon.com/sound/wanted-flap.mp3
Possibly you pronounce "banter" and other words with this sound as well.
I'm very interested in your comments...
"banter" is an uncommon word, and uncommon words with "nt" tend not to get flapped.
@tom:
the nasal D is in "ninety", but not in "banter", which definitely has normal T.
Tom, not sure if this is what you mean, but most T flaps are plosive whereas N flaps are not. Otherwise they sound very similar.
banter - omit T or normal T, no flap
planting - omit T or normal T, no flap
winter - omit T or normal T, no flap
painting - omit T or normal T, no flap
ninety - flap
warranted - flap or normal T
the point of - glottal stop or normal T
seen together - flap or normal T
Something this topic made me recall is that one of my friends pronounces words like "button" and "kitten" with a flap. It sounds so weird to hear him say it. Never knew anyone else who did that.
Not everything other than a normal T comes under the umbrella of a flapped T. Maybe that's the source of some of the confusion here. Americans also have glottal T's and omitted T's, and we consider them to be very distinct in sound from flapped T's.
Intervocalic position favors flapping: beautiful, Katie
Double consonant disfavors it: button, kitten
I agree with Uriel.
Some people here seem to be calling an omitted "t" a flap. Which it isn't.
I agree with Entbark's list, except a flap t in "warranted" and "seen together" sounds careless. IMO, ESL students have no business learning lazy ways of speaking.
