Flap t after L (question for Americans)

Tom   Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:12 am GMT

I have another question about the flap t in American English. (For an explanation of the concept, see this topic: http://www.antimoon.com/forum/t15437.htm)

Is it [correct], [incorrect] or [correct, but careless] to pronounce the flap T in the following words and phrases:

difficult idea
asphalt industry

Thanks a lot for your responses.

jj   Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:35 am GMT
I don't pronounce any of these words with a flap 't', and if I did hear someone use flap 't' then I would think that they're either extremely careless or non-native Anglophones.
Kesington Palace   Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:46 am GMT
socal guy   Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:00 am GMT
im with jj
none have flaped t for me and if i did hear it, id find it accented
Timothy   Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:28 am GMT
I also agree with JJ. None of those words should be flapped.
Thaddeus   Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:51 am GMT
I also don't flap any of those T's and I would find it odd if I heard another American English speaker flap them.
Rick   Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:22 pm GMT
No flap "t" in any of those words. With the exception of "faculty", which can have a flap, I typically don't use the flap "t" after "l".
Uriel   Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:28 am GMT
I would never flap a T in any of those examples.
Johnny   Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:22 pm GMT
Don't listen to them, Tom. Here's Barak Obama saying "death penaldy" right at the beginning:

Johnny   Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:28 pm GMT
I forgot to mention that he also says "penalty" with no tapping though, at 0:58

So I would say that a tapped t is possible after /l/ because I sometimes hear it, but only in a few words, and it can only be found in certain accents.
Guest   Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:47 pm GMT
I am going to go against the general opinion here and say that there CAN be a flap T in pretty much any of those words if you're speaking sloppily.
Entbark   Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:53 am GMT
It would sound weird to hear a flap in any of those cases.
Tom   Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:49 am GMT
@Johnny: Ha ha, great catch!

@Uriel: "You would never use a flap T in any of these examples", so if you heard someone use it, would it sound incorrect or just careless?

@all: I am pretty sure I could say "difficult idea" and "asphalt industry" with a flap T in a way that wouldn't raise your objections, especially in rapid speech.
Timothy   Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:56 am GMT
Even if it's "possible" to flap any of those t's, in every case it would be sloppy. That is enough to label it incorrect, for someone who is learning how to speak proper English.
socal guy   Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:07 am GMT
"difficult idea" and "asphalt industry" with a flap T in rapid speech sounds fine to me
though i would use a glottal myself