Flogging a dead horse

Robin Michael   Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:03 am GMT
Sometimes I read what people say, and although I might agree or disagree with what they say, I feel no further need to add anything, because it will just keep the thread going. I feel that the thread has run its course. Whether Tom* wants to resurrect the thread as the best of 2009 is entirely up to him.

It is rather like explaining a joke. If you have to explain a joke, the joke ceases to become funny and becomes an academic exercise. So, the point of the joke is lost, it is no longer funny.

This not to say that what Josef K or Wintereis has written is not correct or valuable, it is just that I do not wish to make any further comment.

A long time ago, I went to a lecture by Liam Hudson on 'Contrary Imaginations'.

"Contrary Imaginations: a Psychological Study of the English Schoolboy"

His thesis was that scientists and artists are taught to think in completely different ways. To give a very simple example; to a scientist, a paper clip, is a clip for holding paper sheets together. Whereas an artist can turn a paper clip in a small dog or cat, or something completely different.

Liam Hudson is dead, and his obituary is in The Times.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article439905.ece

and also The Independent

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article439905.ece

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

His astonishing first book, Contrary Imaginations (1966), reflected the thinking of the times — C. P. Snow had published his influential analysis of the two opposed “cultures” of science and art in 1959. Hudson, on the basis of the Getzels-Jackson test (one question: How many uses can you think of for a brick?) given to 95 schoolboys, differentiated two intellectual types: convergers and divergers. Convergers, specialising in mathematics and physical sciences, thought literally, prosaically and predictably; divergers, geared to the arts, were capable of surprising cognitive leaps.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Robin Michael   Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:39 am GMT
I met Liam Hudson when he gave a talk about his work with Glasgow gangs. They invited him to come to the kip shop with them. He went along thinking that he was going to sample some 'Fish and Chips'. However the kip shop was not a 'chip shop' but a brothel.

kip: 1. [v] be asleep .






Liam Hudson

Some extracts of his work

http://www.the-rathouse.com/LiamHudson.html

Telegraph obituary

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1486082/Professor-Liam-Hudson.html
Wintereis   Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:53 am GMT
What precisely are you implying? That, because I challenge you on your assumptions and incorrect information, I have no imagination. That, because I chose to back up my ideas with information rather than generalizations and stereotypes, I am some how less creative than you? One need not be a logician to be attracted to subtlety and nuance. I think that your Mr. Hudson actually lacks such a thing. Classification and dichotomies, though they may be easily understood, lack much in what we might call "truth". Indeed, I would say that those who chose the simplest, most obvious routs into an idea are probably the least creative of all people.
Guest   Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:03 am GMT
Robin Michael is a much better troll than the BUTT FUCK guy. People just scroll past him but Robin Michael gets them to post long replies and waste their time.
Robin Michael   Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:19 am GMT
Dear Guest

There is an aspect of trolling when you start a topic that you hope people will contribute to. However my aim is to provoke an interesting discussion. I call that making a contribution to Antimoon.

After I have given a lot of thought and time to something, I find it disappointing when someone writes a one word, negative reply. If you are not interested in what I have to write, it is fairly easy for you to just move on. Do not feel compelled to make a comment. There is a well known saying which I am sure that you are aware of;

"If you cannot say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

I feel that this is particular important in a learning environment. Be positive and encouraging!

I am far more interested in comments from people learning English as a foreign language. I am hoping that this topic will be of interest to Josef K. and Wintereis.

Mistaking 'kip shop' for 'chip shop' illustrates how native English speakers can be caught out by the different dialects and vocabularies of English.

This topic is really a continuation of: "It was the stillness of an implacable force .... ". Wintereis understood what I was trying to say. Josef K was taking the view that an English sentence must 'mean' something. That is the difference between the two types of imagination (ways of thinking) in "Contrary Imaginations". The scientist is looking for meaning while the artist is creating an effect. However if you read the obituary articles you will have read that Liam Hudson extended his thesis to the differences between men and women.

I know a lot of this is old hat. Women are from Venus and Men are from Mars, etc. But at the time Liam Hudson was writing, he was saying something that was new and different.

My guess is that you are an inhabitant of the planet Mars. I would even hazard a guess that there is some Klingon blood flowing through your veins. Am I right?

English to Klingon Translator? - Star Trek Online Forums

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=9025




Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus - Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Are_from_Mars,_Women_Are_from_Venus



I would particularly welcome comments from Uriel.
Guest   Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:46 am GMT
I'm interested in what you write, but your writings are not interesting.
Guest   Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:50 am GMT
>>This not to say that what Josef K or Wintereis has written is not correct or valuable, it is just that I do not wish to make any further comment. <<

Yeah right, LOL! You're INCAPABLE of holding a conversation. All you know and want to do is ramble on and on.
Teacher   Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:48 pm GMT
Robin thinks of himself quite highly. Time to come back to Earth my dear friend. He need to follow his own advice and contribute something constructive to the forum instead of rambling on like an old fart.
Josef K   Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:57 pm GMT
You have made an elementary mistake, Robin Michael. You have assumed that because an artist may progress without ordinary logic, those who progress without ordinary logic are artistic.
Commentator   Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:12 pm GMT
<<
After I have given a lot of thought and time to something, I find it disappointing when someone writes a one word, negative reply. If you are not interested in what I have to write, it is fairly easy for you to just move on. Do not feel compelled to make a comment.>>


I would gladly do that, if you yourself adhered to this rule. But no, you do the same thing. For example, in Achab's thread about assimilation and elision, even though you were not interested, and could have easily moved on, you felt compelled to make a comment and derail the thread.
Achab obviously has given a lot of thought and time to learning the details of assimilation and elision, and must have felt very disappointed with your discouraging, unrelated commentary and un-asked-for advice.

So... if you follow your own rule, I will too...
Robin Michael   Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:05 am GMT
I do not think that time spent examing the words 'assimilation and elision' in a topic called 'assimilation and elision' is in any way irrelevant.

I have not insulted Achab or written anything to discourage him from learning English.

Generally, I do not make personal attacks on other people regardless of the provocation.

Over 'assimilation and elision'; these are words that I am not familiar with. I looked them up in order to find more about them and the concepts behind them.
Robin Michael   Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:24 am GMT
Dear Josef K

Josef K Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:57 pm GMT
You have made an elementary mistake, Robin Michael. You have assumed that because an artist may progress without ordinary logic, those who progress without ordinary logic are artistic.



I have a feeling that you are someone who prides himself on his powers of logic. Another member of the Klingon race perhaps?


Can I disentangle the riddle that you have presented me with?


In circumstances like this, I could take the easy way out and say: "Lets agree to differ". That is my natural reaction.


So Sherlock Holmes, what is my elementary mistake?


1. Because an artist may progress without ordinary logic

2. Those who progress without ordinary logic are artistic.



I would beg to differ. Some people who progress without ordinary logic are artistic. Not everyone who progresses without ordinary logic is artistic.


David Bowie is a successful artist.

His brother is schizophrenic.

Both David Bowie and his brother progress without ordinary logic.

But only David Bowie is a successful artist.


ALL THE MADMEN - BOWIE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlVbLgxokEo



No doubt from the album 'Aladdin Sane'

"A Lad Insane"






"All The Madmen"

David Bowie






Day after day
They send my friends away
To mansions cold and grey
To the far side of town
Where the thin men stalk the streets
While the sane stay underground

Day after day
They tell me I can go
They tell me I can blow
To the far side of town
Where it's pointless to be high
'Cause it's such a long way down

So I tell them that
I can fly, I will scream, I will break my arm
I will do me harm
Here I stand, foot in hand, talking to my wall
I'm not quite right at all...am I?

Don't set me free, I'm as heavy as can be
Just my librium and me
And my E.S.T. makes three

'Cause I'd rather stay here
With all the madmen
Than perish with the sadmen roaming free
And I'd rather play here
With all the madmen
For I'm quite content they're all as sane
As me

(Where can the horizon lie
When a nation hides
Its organic minds
In a cellar...dark and grim
They must be very dim)

Day after day
They take some brain away
Then turn my face around
To the far side of town
And tell me that it's real
Then ask me how I feel

Here I stand, foot in hand, talking to my wall
I'm not quite right at all

Don't set me free, I'm as helpless as can be
My libido's split on me
Gimme some good 'ole lobotomy

'Cause I'd rather stay here
With all the madmen
Than perish with the sadmen
Roaming free
And I'd rather play here
With all the madmen
For I'm quite content
They're all as sane as me

Zane, Zane, Zane
Ouvre le Chien
Zane, Zane, Zane
Ouvre le Chien
Zane, Zane, Zane (ah ah ah)
Ouvre le Chien
Zane, Zane, Zane (ah ah ah)
Ouvre le Chien
Zane, Zane, Zane (ah ah ah)
Ouvre le Chien
Zane, Zane, Zane (ah ah ah)
Ouvre le Chien
Zane, Zane, Zane (ah ah ah)
Ouvre le Chien
Zane, Zane, Zane (ah ah ah)
Ouvre le Chien
Zane, Zane, Zane (ah ah ah)
Ouvre le Chien
Zane, Zane, Zane (ah ah ah)
Ouvre le Chien
Zane, Zane, Zane (ah ah ah)
Ouvre le Chien
Guest   Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:25 am GMT
Obnoxius moron.
Raiders Fan   Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:20 am GMT
Man this thread sucks.
Goph   Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:34 am GMT
I wonder what hurts Robin Michael more:
a) short, negative comments
b) no comments whatsoever

Probably the latter. Let's ignore him from now on. Arguing with Robin Michael is impossible, it's like flogging a dead horse.