Should I learn Spanish if already learning French?

doomsayer   Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:06 pm GMT
<<
because that means turmoil and suffering (no superpower ever falls without a lot of victims), and then there's a good chance you won't even be alive by then to exercise your skills.
>>

All we can say for sure about China is thet they will decide our fate sometime in the future. It's not clear if they will liquidate the US population once they get the chance. Will they be like Europe/US of a few centuries ago and clear out whole continents for resettling, or will they be like the more recent US who went in more for economic imperialism and exploitation?

At any rate, Murphy's law says:

1) Learn Chinese (at horrendous cost), and either China implodes or does indeed liquidate all of us.

2) Don't learn Chinese, and be sorry later on when Chinese dominates the world of information and culture, and good Chinese is expected if you are educated.

Isn't is great when (the real) doomsayer and "a demotivator" get together?
Lhhlanguage   Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:09 pm GMT
demotivator, I myself am one of the most pessimistic people there is, so what I'm about to say will be somewhat hypocritical. But I think you're much too negative about language learning. You said:

"Because while some may get lucky, the vast majority of language learners never reach anything near fluency, never makes many foreign friends, never gets a high enough level to enjoy the culture, never becomes a translator, and quite often never even gets any enjoyment from it...."

I don't think whether someone successfully learns a language is a matter of luck, like winning the lottery. While it's true that most language learners don't become fluent, it's also true that most aren't seriously committed to learning the language they are studying and/or study in boring and unproductive ways (both of these things apply to most people who study languages in school). Others, including many first generation immigrants, don't become fluent because they simply don't have enough time to because of more pressing priorities, like working and taking care of their families. I agree that some people do have much more talent for languages than others. Some people suck at it no matter how hard they try or what methods they use. But this doesn't mean that it's largely a matter of chance whether a particular person who is trying to learn a language will succeed or not.

Furthermore, I don't think one has to become fluent, or even close to fluent, in another language in order to learn enough to make the effort they've put in worthwhile. Even knowing a little bit of a language can open someone's mind up to new ways of thinking and looking at the world. I am seriously studying Spanish and this has certainly been the case for me, and it's often even more so for someone studying a language far more different from their own than English is from Spanish (for example, an English speaker learning Japanese or vice versa). Even if I never become fluent in Spanish (and I see no reason why I won't), I would consider the time I've devoted to it time well spent.
Jordan   Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:51 am GMT
<<I agree that some people do have much more talent for languages than others.>>

That's me! French has been really easy for me to pick up. I don't even really try that hard and I just pick it up. My French teacher conducts the whole class in French, and English is not allowed. If you want to speak in English you have to say,

<<Est-ce que je peux parler en anglais s'il vous plaƮt?>>

This helps because I learn things without even knowing it. Sometimes I can find out a new word by the context of the sentence.

<<you'll be 20 years older, chances are you will be married, have kids, be engrained in a typical office job, be depressed and have long since stopped being interested in languages.>>

Totally not true! I don't plan on living in the US after I graduate college. I want to live in Europe, whether that be Italy, France, or Spain. If I do remain in the US, I will most likely be a college professor in foreign language. I hate anything business/office related. This meaning I won't be living out a "typical" life style as you described.

Also, I don't Spanish to be that difficult as a language. As a matter of fact, I think it's one of the easiest languages to learn for an English speaker after German, Dutch and other Germanic languages.

I read earlier someone discussing learning styles for languages. Besides French which I'm studying in school, I'm not using old, boring language approaches. I'm using teaching styles that don't require flash cards and textbooks.
a demotivator   Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:33 am GMT
<<That's me! French has been really easy for me to pick up. I don't even really try that hard and I just pick it up. My French teacher conducts the whole class in French, and English is not allowed. If you want to speak in English you have to say,>>


How good is your French? If you're like most high school language graduates, it is very, very basic and riddled with mistakes. In my experience I've seen that most high school graduates have an inflated sense of how good they are. I used to conduct placement tests at university, and it was funny seeing all these people coming straight from high school wanting to jump straight to advanced courses. They couldn't believe that all their knowledge was less than one semester's worth at university. In many cases they were so bad and had such ingrained mistakes and awful pronunciation that it would've been better if they'd never even studied the language at all and had started from scratch in an intensive environment. As for university graduates, they're still pretty bad, in most cases I wouldn't even consider them advanced.


<<Totally not true! I don't plan on living in the US after I graduate college. I want to live in Europe, whether that be Italy, France, or Spain...I hate anything business/office related. This meaning I won't be living out a "typical" life style as you described. >>


Ha! That's what they all say! Most fail. When you're in school, everything looks promising and it's easy to let idealistic fantasies cloud your mind. I doubt many of those people sitting in offices right now planned on doing that in high school, they probably wanted to travel the world, be a sports star, be president, etc ....


<<Also, I don't Spanish to be that difficult as a language. As a matter of fact, I think it's one of the easiest languages to learn for an English speaker after German, Dutch and other Germanic languages.>>


All languages are difficult, Spanish included. Pay more attention to who exactly is telling you which languages are "easy". Most of them don't speak their "easy" language fluently, or speak it terribly and either don't realise it or make terrible excuses like "well, if I wanted to it would be easy to improve, but I can't be bothered". Those who do speak the "easy" language are often biased, and will claim it was "easy" in order to make themselves appear smarter (it was easy for me, what are you having trouble or something? chortle chortle), or to coax you into studying the language they teach in order to increase the funding for their department.


<<Besides French which I'm studying in school, I'm not using old, boring language approaches. I'm using teaching styles that don't require flash cards and textbooks. >>


Ok, but don't expect that to make it easier to learn. It will be hard no matter what you do.


<<This helps because I learn things without even knowing it. Sometimes I can find out a new word by the context of the sentence. >>


I sure hope you can, because you will be doing it for the rest of your life!
Jordan   Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:03 am GMT
<<How good is your French?>>

Pretty good for one semester of French I. I know the basic verbs, vocabulary words ect. I'm the top of my class. I'm going to take French every year during high school, so I'll graduate having taken French IV. In French III & IV you read novels in French, so I'm going to be pretty fluent in the language. My teacher is also very into teaching us the French culture. I believe in French III or IV we have a test on the regions of France.

<<Ha! That's what they all say! Most fail. When you're in school, everything looks promising and it's easy to let idealistic fantasies cloud your mind. I doubt many of those people sitting in offices right now planned on doing that in high school, they probably wanted to travel the world, be a sports star, be president, etc ....>>

I'm not saying I'm going to be a sports star or president. I'm a high school student, not an eight-year-old with "big dreams". If I want to live in another country, it's not that difficult to do. If I decide not to move to another country, I'll have at least studied abroad there in college. My point was I'm not going into a business/real estate career in a cubicle with a 9-5. That's pretty much everything I'm against. I'm creative and I'm into art, photography and music.

<<Pay more attention to who exactly is telling you which languages are "easy".>>

When I took Spanish class I didn't find it to be that difficult compared to a language like Chinese. Almost every source I've read and every person I've talked to agrees that Spanish is quite easy. I think it's because the language is phonetic. My dad is fluent in Spanish and lived in Mexico City for awhile (25 years ago) and he still has almost all of it. Some people just have a knack for learning languages.
doomsayer   Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:13 pm GMT
<<I'm going to take French every year during high school, so I'll graduate having taken French IV. In French III & IV you read novels in French, so I'm going to be pretty fluent in the language.>>

I took French for years, (3 years in grades 5, 7, 8, and 4years in HS). Let me see if I can be pessimistic:

1) Even though we read novels, poems, old plays, essays, etc., I never learned French worth a darn.

2) They took us to a performance of Tartuffe, and is was hard to understand. We had concentrated too much on readign old literature, and not enough of understanding spech.

3) Out of everything I ever studied in 18+ years of schooling, Pre-K, K, 1-12, college, and grad school (all of this many decades ago), the one course that stands out as the very worst of all was French IV. The very worst part of this worst course was having to read Phedre, which was not only hard to decypher, but boring as could be, to boot. Why didn't they have us read magazines and newspapers, instead?

--- The real doomsayer ---
Elcastellano   Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:02 am GMT
Yeah you should pick CASTILLIAN back up but only after you finish French. Just don't try an learn the two together.
aiyan   Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:45 am GMT
salamanca spanish course
http://www.mester.com/nl/salamanca.php

Spanish courses can be provided on 8 different levels to the students depending on their proficiency level and requirements. These 8 levels are - Beginners, Elementary, Intermediate, Upper-Intermediate, Advanced, Upper-Advanced, Superior, and Proficiency. Before joining a program, one must analyze the features of the program, and whether or not the lessons are enjoyable, setting grammatical, communicative, vocabulary-based and cultural objectives. At the end of each level of the language, the school must evaluate the progress of the student. The course must also include other activities apart from the lessons such as weekend trips to understand the cultural aspect of the Spanish language.