How useful of Mandarin in Hong Kong?

Xie   Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:50 am GMT
<<So are the books in Mandarin translated in Cantonese for the Hong Kong readers? Can you write your thesis in Cantonese?>>

They don't need translations because the education has always offered standard Chinese (same in ROC, PRC, Macau, Malaysia, Sinapore, practically all Chinese schools everywhere).

Nobody will bother to write theses in Cantonese or even Chinese though, except in the Chinese department. Everything except the Chinese department only writes English at the university.

I think I only have to be trilingual like a Dutch person in Europe. Few hold Cantonese in high regard and it has no practical use outside spoken language. But ignorant nationalistic mainland Chinese won't normally have their "Chinese", one of my own Chinese, honored elsewhere anyway. As a unitary concept, Chinese has little use outside this country.
Xie   Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:55 am GMT
I can only say this huge imbalance will be less important in time.

China is a huge country and Chinese has the most L1 speakers worldwide. It simply isn't normal to see Chinese have at least some symbolic value outside the country, when the whole world is overshadowed by European languages headed by English.

By analogy, the Americans might well say they're suffering from a huge trade imbalance with China at the expense of their own interest and demanding a huge revaluation of the RMB.

Both things will change, definitely. Some day Hong Kong's own currency will be pegged to RMB instead of USD, Chinese will become one of the most popular second languages, and Chinese will be honored far more widely than now. But at present it still just doesn't sound very useful for my own foreign acquaintances to murmur a few random phrases without any substantial knowledge, much to my disappointment...
Yuwan   Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:57 am GMT
Xie,
There are always Chinese and English books. He's asking about books, not academic journals.

I think Northerners that only speak dialects of Mandarin are more determined to wipe out other Southerner's languages. Many Southern Chinese actually care their own languages.
This is a Shanghaiese discussion board and there's a discussion on how Mandarin invades other languages.
http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=717742191

Don't be too optimistic about China.
Chinese languages itself maybe honored but Chinese people and China won't become more respected in future. So, what's for? The environmental issue of China is enough to threaten the future of China and stirred up hatred. The Central government can't stop building dams for electricity and causes droughts everywhere inside and outside of China. Millions of people in southwestern China have to escape to other provinces. Outside China, even the peaceful Thai people speak of China with hate because China builds dams on the upper stream of Mekong River.
Guest1111   Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:11 am GMT
<<British people can vote, why can't Chinese do the same thing? ?>>

What's voting got to do with the supression of languages? In any democracy minority languages get supressed and do not have a voice, that is a fact of life. Native Chinese languages would be no better cattered for in any self-proclaimed democracy. The national language will always dominate.

If you don't like it form a terrorist group like Northern Ireland's IRA, to fight for your homeland, language and culture. Britain has all the issues you speak of my friend, despite it apparently being a democracy. Alhough, with the way the leader of the current party can just choose the next without election, I certainly do not think the UK is the purest of democracies by far.
Guest1111   Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:24 am GMT
<<The environmental issue of China is enough to threaten the future of China and stirred up hatred. >>

Is your clearly beloved USA really any better on this issue?
Yuwan   Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:10 am GMT
<Is your clearly beloved USA really any better on this issue??

It seems you are a typical internet commentator.
How USA do on environmental don't justify any wrongdoings of China on the same issue.


Internet commentators and ignorant brainwashed Chinese loves justifying their own wrongdoings with the experiences of Imperialistic Britain and USA.

Democracy is the first steps of saving suppressed languages.
Little Tadpole   Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:23 am GMT
Yuwan: "Democracy is the first steps of saving suppressed languages."

In the case of China, there is one more step: get rid of inferiority complex first. Inferiority complex is the root of all evils in China.

Any problem from the inability to solve the meaning of 床 in Li Bai's 静夜思 poem, to the lack of democracy, to the 30 million people that died in Great Leap Forward, to the lack of a Chinese Nobel Prize winners, to the running of patients in ambulances in Beijing during the SARS scare to evade foreign inspectors, to the suppression of dialects, to the oppression of minorities, every single problem traces back to inferiority complex.

It's not a political problem. It's an educational problem. If people keep trying to solve it as a political problem, in another 100 years it will still not be solved. You see Singapore and you know what I mean.

You don't try to overthrow the people that have the power and the goodies. You work with them. You talk to them. You care about their off-springs and the next generation of Chinese in general. You don't change people's behavior by antagonizing them. You need to care about them.

It's carrots and sticks. China is like a little autistic boy growing up. Another thing is you need to show them why freedom of ideas matters. You don't show them that by shoveling down their throats. You show them that by working with other people that share your ideals of freedom of ideas. The carrots are the educational reforms. The sticks are working closely together with other partners in the free world.

But keep this always in mind: the Chinese are fellow citizens of the world, including those in power. We all come from the same fish.
Yuwan   Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:26 am GMT
<the lack of a Chinese Nobel Prize winners>
Maybe because it is more western scholar orientated, to be fair. But I think in a country without freedom, there will only be a very limited imagination and originality in a person. They are all slaves of the powers.

<every single problem traces back to inferiority complex. >
I don't think it is due to inferiority complex. It is more likely due to EUNUCH COMPLEX (TAIJIAN COMPLEX) . When a Chinese gets rich, the first thing he/she does is to become a slave dog for the party in powers because they think they can get even more money and power for flattering the authority. In the process of flattering the powers, those rich Chinese just ignore and suppress the life and welfare of their poorer own kind. They do it just for a little bit of money and power. Disgusting.


Maybe the Chinese love to be suppressed, love to be slave dogs. They love suppressing their own languages is a very sound proof. It is just a pain that you can't write what you mouth say. But they can even accuse their own written languages as "low class". I have seen someone who criticizes newspaper that has some written Cantonese columns and he said "their Chinese proficiency is very low". Then I responded , "Cantonese is still a sinitic language. Why are they wrong for writing in Cantonese? They are still writing Chinese."

The stupidest kind of Chinese I have ever saw is - even though they are the poorest in the society and suppressed, they still talk patriotic. While those who are in powers, get rich because of corruption and then send their money and children to the West, is the least patriotic.
Patriotic is freaking stupid.

I wish China would be nuked someday. I can't stand the walking slaves. You go to demonstrations and then those slaves will say "only those who are lazy like democracy"...
Yuwan   Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:43 pm GMT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucai

It should be called nucai complex.
Nowadays Chinese people still have the nature of being a "nu" in their DNA.
"NU" isn't a slave. A "Nu" is worse than a slave. He brainwashes himself to be the dog of his masters. Even slaves will revolt against their masters when time comes. But a "nu" won't. Even though he is a victim himself, he will defend his masters. For what? Just a little bit of money and power.
Yuwan   Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:58 pm GMT
Chinese people make the best "nu" in the world.
Even westerners could see this...
http://img.skitch.com/20100408-riqkd11dxu7h36tbhdw3cumgj4.jpg
(From a westerner journal in 19th century)
Why are the Chinese the best servant?
Because of the "nu" complex. They consider their masters or the authority first even though they have nothing. If they ever get anything from their masters, they will defend their masters harder. China has always been a kingdom, a dynasty. People has always been the least importance but they have always thought for those in powers.

That's why they can't appreciate their own languages and call their own languages as low class.