Ideally we should have English native speakers as teachers, but the problem is that not many English native speakers are willing to teach English in a foreign country, right?
English teachers should be native English speakers
Clari
<<Not necessarily. You may not have native speakers to teach you English in the school, but you can listen to audio books by native speakers and watch YouTube video by native speakers.>>
Non-interactive input is much less useful than interactive input. And YouTube isn't necessarily a good source for good English. Furthermore, you need a good base of proper pronunciation. If you learn bad English, and you get used to that pronunciation, you probably won't abandon that just because you've heard something different.
<<You can't count on your English teachers to teach you good pronunciation and right accent. That is quite unrealistic, they are there to teach you grammar.>>
Huh? English teachers can't be expected to have their students learn perfect pronunciation, but if they aren't making a serious effort, their students need a new teacher.
N.
<<where movies are often broadcasted in English with subtitles>>
Broadcast, not broadcasted. It's an irregular verb. In fact, Google Chrome put a red line under "broadcasted").
The sad thing is, English is also neglected in America. There's hardly any grammar or pronunciation lessons in American schools. It seems to just be assumed that if someone's a native English speaker, they'll learn to speak English on their own. Even newscasters often have trouble with English, making such errors as pronouncing the word "subject" the same regardless of whether it's a noun or a verb.
you got owned
<<It's much easier to talk with someone who says "aiya wanna goa tooa ze cineema aandd vatacha a moovie becauuse iia have a lotttaa monnieee" than someone who says "I want movie look, money have lot I". >>
While there are people with perfect grammar who don't pronounce words correctly, people with perfect pronunciation but bad grammar are virtually nonexistent. There's Yoda, but that was done intentionally for effect. So really, the comparison should be with someone who says "I wan muvay luh, moenay haf lah I". If you can manage to pronounce words perfectly, grammar isn't actually all that important. Yeah, good grammar makes your speech less painful to listen to, but bad grammar usually doesn't prevent communication. I could say the words in a sentence in a completely random order, and people would still probably be able to figure out what I'm saying. But if they can't figure out what words I'm saying, then it's completely irrelevant whether I'm putting them in the right order.
Even when the communication is purely written, good pronunciation can help. People who mispronounce words tens to misspell them as well (such as writing "then" when they mean "than"), and if you don't know how to spell something but you know how to pronounce it, you might be understood if you just spell it phonetically. But if you don't pronounce it correctly, spelling it phonetically according to how you pronounce will just confuse people. In addition, if other people misspell words, it's easier to figure out what they mean if you're familiar with common pronunciations. If you aren't aware that some people pronounce "are" and "our" the same, you'll probably be really confused when someone writes the wrong word.
<<This is absolutely wrong. It makes NO difference what accent the person has. 95% of students will never get beyond sounding ITALIAN, and will never have to even contemplate the question of which accent they should choose. >>
There's a difference an American saying "Gee, that person has a strong Italian accent", and an American saying "I think that person is speaking Italian, but several of the words sound almost like English words". There are quite a few people that, unless I listen really carefully, I'm not even aware that they're speaking English. Or, rather, something that they think is English. I had a conversation with someone who kept saying something that sounded like "amber". Eventually I figured out that he meant "umbrella". If your English is so bad that "umbrella" sounds like "amber", people are going to be reluctant to talk with you.
<<Speaking incorrectly is when you make a grammatical mistake. Speaking with an accent is not speaking incorrectly.>>
What?!? There's no such thing as an incorrect pronunciation?
<<If someone says "the dog walk" in a good accent I will be surprised and disgusted, "how could that asshole get a good accent but not know how to say that simple shit?".>>
If someone were to say "the dog walk" in a good accent, I'd assume that they're using "walk" as a noun. If someone were to say "the dog walk" with an accent, I would probably be able to figure out they the mean "the dog walks". If someone were to say "the dog works", I'd have no idea that they meant "the dog walks", unless there's enough context.
Spain
<<and there pronounciation is very bad as well..!! >>
There's a slight irony in your misspelling "their".
<<Not necessarily. You may not have native speakers to teach you English in the school, but you can listen to audio books by native speakers and watch YouTube video by native speakers.>>
Non-interactive input is much less useful than interactive input. And YouTube isn't necessarily a good source for good English. Furthermore, you need a good base of proper pronunciation. If you learn bad English, and you get used to that pronunciation, you probably won't abandon that just because you've heard something different.
<<You can't count on your English teachers to teach you good pronunciation and right accent. That is quite unrealistic, they are there to teach you grammar.>>
Huh? English teachers can't be expected to have their students learn perfect pronunciation, but if they aren't making a serious effort, their students need a new teacher.
N.
<<where movies are often broadcasted in English with subtitles>>
Broadcast, not broadcasted. It's an irregular verb. In fact, Google Chrome put a red line under "broadcasted").
The sad thing is, English is also neglected in America. There's hardly any grammar or pronunciation lessons in American schools. It seems to just be assumed that if someone's a native English speaker, they'll learn to speak English on their own. Even newscasters often have trouble with English, making such errors as pronouncing the word "subject" the same regardless of whether it's a noun or a verb.
you got owned
<<It's much easier to talk with someone who says "aiya wanna goa tooa ze cineema aandd vatacha a moovie becauuse iia have a lotttaa monnieee" than someone who says "I want movie look, money have lot I". >>
While there are people with perfect grammar who don't pronounce words correctly, people with perfect pronunciation but bad grammar are virtually nonexistent. There's Yoda, but that was done intentionally for effect. So really, the comparison should be with someone who says "I wan muvay luh, moenay haf lah I". If you can manage to pronounce words perfectly, grammar isn't actually all that important. Yeah, good grammar makes your speech less painful to listen to, but bad grammar usually doesn't prevent communication. I could say the words in a sentence in a completely random order, and people would still probably be able to figure out what I'm saying. But if they can't figure out what words I'm saying, then it's completely irrelevant whether I'm putting them in the right order.
Even when the communication is purely written, good pronunciation can help. People who mispronounce words tens to misspell them as well (such as writing "then" when they mean "than"), and if you don't know how to spell something but you know how to pronounce it, you might be understood if you just spell it phonetically. But if you don't pronounce it correctly, spelling it phonetically according to how you pronounce will just confuse people. In addition, if other people misspell words, it's easier to figure out what they mean if you're familiar with common pronunciations. If you aren't aware that some people pronounce "are" and "our" the same, you'll probably be really confused when someone writes the wrong word.
<<This is absolutely wrong. It makes NO difference what accent the person has. 95% of students will never get beyond sounding ITALIAN, and will never have to even contemplate the question of which accent they should choose. >>
There's a difference an American saying "Gee, that person has a strong Italian accent", and an American saying "I think that person is speaking Italian, but several of the words sound almost like English words". There are quite a few people that, unless I listen really carefully, I'm not even aware that they're speaking English. Or, rather, something that they think is English. I had a conversation with someone who kept saying something that sounded like "amber". Eventually I figured out that he meant "umbrella". If your English is so bad that "umbrella" sounds like "amber", people are going to be reluctant to talk with you.
<<Speaking incorrectly is when you make a grammatical mistake. Speaking with an accent is not speaking incorrectly.>>
What?!? There's no such thing as an incorrect pronunciation?
<<If someone says "the dog walk" in a good accent I will be surprised and disgusted, "how could that asshole get a good accent but not know how to say that simple shit?".>>
If someone were to say "the dog walk" in a good accent, I'd assume that they're using "walk" as a noun. If someone were to say "the dog walk" with an accent, I would probably be able to figure out they the mean "the dog walks". If someone were to say "the dog works", I'd have no idea that they meant "the dog walks", unless there's enough context.
Spain
<<and there pronounciation is very bad as well..!! >>
There's a slight irony in your misspelling "their".
<<Even when the communication is purely written, good pronunciation can help. People who mispronounce words tens to misspell them as well (such as writing "then" when they mean "than"), and if you don't know how to spell something but you know how to pronounce it, you might be understood if you just spell it phonetically. But if you don't pronounce it correctly, spelling it phonetically according to how you pronounce will just confuse people. In addition, if other people misspell words, it's easier to figure out what they mean if you're familiar with common pronunciations. If you aren't aware that some people pronounce "are" and "our" the same, you'll probably be really confused when someone writes the wrong word. >>
This makes no sense whatsoever. Those spelling mistakes are most commonly made by native speakers, but native speakers have "perfect" native sounding pronunciation by definition. So, if a non-native wants to get a native accent, he needs to pronounce "then" the same as "than" (at the right times). So having a good accent means you're MORE likely to make that mistake.
Wow, I owned you big time.
<<What?!? There's no such thing as an incorrect pronunciation?>>
It depends on what we mean. If you get pedantic then I don't know, maybe a foreign accent is incorrect or bad or whatever, I don't really care. All I know is that an accent like that wannabe American Dutch guy's one grates on the ear whereas a more normal medium Dutch accent would be much more pleasant.
This makes no sense whatsoever. Those spelling mistakes are most commonly made by native speakers, but native speakers have "perfect" native sounding pronunciation by definition. So, if a non-native wants to get a native accent, he needs to pronounce "then" the same as "than" (at the right times). So having a good accent means you're MORE likely to make that mistake.
Wow, I owned you big time.
<<What?!? There's no such thing as an incorrect pronunciation?>>
It depends on what we mean. If you get pedantic then I don't know, maybe a foreign accent is incorrect or bad or whatever, I don't really care. All I know is that an accent like that wannabe American Dutch guy's one grates on the ear whereas a more normal medium Dutch accent would be much more pleasant.
Thanks for the correction with " their " Another Guest.
What you have written above is very true. Pronunciation is just as important as everything else when it comes to learning a language.
In spanish for example there are many words that sound very similar.
If you said Quiero poyo para comer [ It means I want a stone bench to eat ]
If you said Quiero Pollo para comer [ It means I want chicken to eat ]
If you said Quiero Polla Para Comer [ It means I want cock to eat ]
If you don't practice the Pronunciation no one will understand you, but like Another Guest said If the construction of the phrase is all back to front but is pronounced well, they will understand what your trying to say and maybe correct you at the same time.
Also you got owned, you say that People don't lose their Original accent..? I know a spanish girl that went to live in london for six years. If you had a chat with her you would think that she was probably born in the uk. She speaks perfect English and has the Cockney accent as well.
Good Pronunciation is needed in any language that people mite learn.
What you have written above is very true. Pronunciation is just as important as everything else when it comes to learning a language.
In spanish for example there are many words that sound very similar.
If you said Quiero poyo para comer [ It means I want a stone bench to eat ]
If you said Quiero Pollo para comer [ It means I want chicken to eat ]
If you said Quiero Polla Para Comer [ It means I want cock to eat ]
If you don't practice the Pronunciation no one will understand you, but like Another Guest said If the construction of the phrase is all back to front but is pronounced well, they will understand what your trying to say and maybe correct you at the same time.
Also you got owned, you say that People don't lose their Original accent..? I know a spanish girl that went to live in london for six years. If you had a chat with her you would think that she was probably born in the uk. She speaks perfect English and has the Cockney accent as well.
Good Pronunciation is needed in any language that people mite learn.
you got owned, You need to take your head well and truly out of the clouds..!!
If you learn any language the way you say it should be learned then you will get absolutley no where..!! Where did you get your advice and tips from for learning languages..? Did you read it in one of your grammar books..?
Wake up and have your cornflakes..!!!
If you learn any language the way you say it should be learned then you will get absolutley no where..!! Where did you get your advice and tips from for learning languages..? Did you read it in one of your grammar books..?
Wake up and have your cornflakes..!!!
sorry spain but we were discussing languages that are actually useful. Not spanish.
>>Broadcast, not broadcasted. It's an irregular verb. In fact, Google Chrome put a red line under "broadcasted").
Actually no, broadcasted is an acceptable alternative form, and both Oxford's New American Dictionary and Merriam-Webster seem to confirm that:
Oxf: broadcast |ˈbrɔdˌkæst|
verb ( past -cast |ˈbrɔdˌkæst| |ˈbrɔdˌkæst| or -casted |ˈbrɔdˌkæstəd| |ˈbrɔdˌkæstəd|; past part. -cast or -casted) [ trans. ]
Merriam W. : Main Entry: broadcast
Function:verb
Inflected Form:broadcast also broad-cast-ed ; broad-cast-ing
Actually no, broadcasted is an acceptable alternative form, and both Oxford's New American Dictionary and Merriam-Webster seem to confirm that:
Oxf: broadcast |ˈbrɔdˌkæst|
verb ( past -cast |ˈbrɔdˌkæst| |ˈbrɔdˌkæst| or -casted |ˈbrɔdˌkæstəd| |ˈbrɔdˌkæstəd|; past part. -cast or -casted) [ trans. ]
Merriam W. : Main Entry: broadcast
Function:verb
Inflected Form:broadcast also broad-cast-ed ; broad-cast-ing
@yougotowned
I get your point, and I do agree that a fake native accent might be even more irritating than a non-native one. But that doesn't change the problem, a bad accent is a bad accent, regardless of it being a fake native one or a natural one.
Now please, if you have time, watch this video (it's only 5 mins):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2C2gb6ws8
Listen to the French guy talking. You're telling me that doesn't annoy you? (Safarhi'?!) 'Cause then you're just more forbearing than the rest of the population, that kind of speech just pierces my ears!
I think a moderately strong accent sounds irritating, regardless of what language it is present in.
But, a light accent is not bad, and can actually be nice (Russian chicks with "hard R's" do sound sexy), though it's still bad speaking.
I get your point, and I do agree that a fake native accent might be even more irritating than a non-native one. But that doesn't change the problem, a bad accent is a bad accent, regardless of it being a fake native one or a natural one.
Now please, if you have time, watch this video (it's only 5 mins):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2C2gb6ws8
Listen to the French guy talking. You're telling me that doesn't annoy you? (Safarhi'?!) 'Cause then you're just more forbearing than the rest of the population, that kind of speech just pierces my ears!
I think a moderately strong accent sounds irritating, regardless of what language it is present in.
But, a light accent is not bad, and can actually be nice (Russian chicks with "hard R's" do sound sexy), though it's still bad speaking.
>> sorry spain but we were discussing languages that are actually useful. Not spanish <<
So spanish is not useful for people living in spain then Eddy ..?
It depends on what languages people like no..? so which languages are you learning then..? do tell us us Eddy..?
Where do you get " we were " discussing from..? the shite you posted above was your first post for this disscussion eddy boy...
So spanish is not useful for people living in spain then Eddy ..?
It depends on what languages people like no..? so which languages are you learning then..? do tell us us Eddy..?
Where do you get " we were " discussing from..? the shite you posted above was your first post for this disscussion eddy boy...
It was a 'we' referring to people who have a useful first language.
And to be honest who cares about shitty spain? nobody. just like nobody cares about spanish.
Fortunately as a native English speaker, I am not required to learn peasant tongues.
I merely sit and laugh as the lower-born struggle with my native language instead.
And to be honest who cares about shitty spain? nobody. just like nobody cares about spanish.
Fortunately as a native English speaker, I am not required to learn peasant tongues.
I merely sit and laugh as the lower-born struggle with my native language instead.
haha Edward Teach, lucky bastard. A bit too arrogant but yes, honestly, if English were my native tongue I would never bother to learn any other languages except maybe a bit of French and Latin seeing how much vocabulary and, to some extent, grammar English has borrowed from them.
ok seeing how this got completely off-topic
I have what some here would call a "fake" American accent. People on youtube who commented on a video I made said I sound very American in it and some even said they wouldn't have been able to tell me from a native speaker by my talking.
Even though Americans seem to find Russian accents sexy, personally I hate it when Russians pronounce English just like would pronounce Russian once, just replacing the th, w, ae i: o: a: sounds, absent from our language, with similar Russian consonants and vowels, not to even mentio their intonation. Now, yougotowned, are you saying that Runglish is just another accent of English, to be treated like Scottish and whatnot, and do you really prefer to hear people who speak this non-native abomination to those who really want to acquire the language not only in its grammar and vocabulary but also its acoustic form? (which is, by the way, the basis of any language)
I have what some here would call a "fake" American accent. People on youtube who commented on a video I made said I sound very American in it and some even said they wouldn't have been able to tell me from a native speaker by my talking.
Even though Americans seem to find Russian accents sexy, personally I hate it when Russians pronounce English just like would pronounce Russian once, just replacing the th, w, ae i: o: a: sounds, absent from our language, with similar Russian consonants and vowels, not to even mentio their intonation. Now, yougotowned, are you saying that Runglish is just another accent of English, to be treated like Scottish and whatnot, and do you really prefer to hear people who speak this non-native abomination to those who really want to acquire the language not only in its grammar and vocabulary but also its acoustic form? (which is, by the way, the basis of any language)
Hey hey hey wait a minute...Are you the guy who's having problems with English speaking? Yet you say you sound very American?
I just farted
or shall I say: I have just farted
it's the same thing because: I farted!
or shall I say: I have just farted
it's the same thing because: I farted!